How do you deal with tilt?

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sergey3

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What methods do you use to avoid tilting? If you lose to trash cards. I'm on the verge of breaking down ... how can I keep myself from wasting my accumulated bankroll?
Help) my be tea with melissa? Will help?
 
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Phil2307

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Go for a long walk. I just had 2 horrible sessions in a row with coolers over coolers. I was so tilted. I went for a long walk and now feeling much better. Going to read now. When it's not your day it's not your day...
 
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ph_il

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i don't tilt because i don't care about losing against worst hands. what's the point of wasting time and energy being upset whenever i lose against opponents that i have an equity edge over when i'm winning so much value in the long run? that's just silly.

no matter how bad the short term negative variance is, it's doesn't mean anything in the long run. profit in poker comes from long term +ev decisions. keep making the +ev decisions, ignore the bad results.
 
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bellicoso

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i don't tilt because i don't care about losing against worst hands. what's the point of wasting time and energy being upset whenever i lose against opponents that i have an equity edge over when i'm winning so much value in the long run? that's just silly.

no matter how bad the short term negative variance is, it's doesn't mean anything in the long run. profit in poker comes from long term +ev decisions. keep making the +ev decisions, ignore the bad results.


Hey shoot, tilt is my biggest issue. It seems like, the more I study and try to continue to make good decisions, the more I take bad beats. Is this simply supposed to end? Is it just coincidence that I happen to have learned more in the last few weeks AND I'm also taking so many bad beats? I am really eager to take down a decent tournament on ACR... but it seems to evade me. I've cashed several times in the last few weeks (even made it as far as fifth place), but cannot secure a win...
 
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DAVID KEHRER

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When i tilt i just try to get done with games going and take a day off to look what happen to see what i could of done different.
 
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ph_il

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Hey shoot, tilt is my biggest issue. It seems like, the more I study and try to continue to make good decisions, the more I take bad beats.
...well, this is just naturally going to happen. when you make better decisions and you get your money in with better equity edges, you're going to experience more 'bad beats'. it's not that poker is rigged or anything, it's just that many tend to associate bad beats as losing when they're huge favorites.

lets take two scenarios where you lose as a 95% favorite and a 65% favorite. you have an equity edge in both, but i'm sure losing as a 95% favorite is going to be more devastating to you than losing as a 65% favorite, but, in the long term, you're losing as a 65% favorite way more often than you are as a 95% favorite. so, it's not that you're taking more bad beats usual, because it all balances in the long term, it's just, as you improve and you play better, make better decisions, and you have better understanding of the game, really big losses, as rare as they might be, are going to have a bigger impact.

plus if you've been on a bad run, you've lost numerous flips in a row, busted out as 55-65% favorite in a number of mtts, etc, and suddenly you lose as a 95% favorite on the turn, it's going have a huge affect on a lot of people. it's just going to feel that all you're doing is losing, but you have to think in long terms. short term bad luck means nothing.

lets say long term is 100k hands you play where you have 75% equity or better to win, preflop. you're making so much value that the randoms you lose as a huge favorite 20, 30, 50, even 100 times a row is not going to matter when you're winning 75k times. when you're winning that much, what's 100 loses in a row?

it's like when you tell someone you've made $1000 in profits from poker and they ask 'but how much did you lose?'. that's a stupid question. so, think about it in the same way. if you're winning 75k hands and profiting off it, are you going ask yourself, 'but how many bad beats did i get?' no, because it doesn't matter.

Is this simply supposed to end?
...no. bad beats will never end unless you quit poker. bad beats, losing, is inevitable. just like you coming back as an underdog and winning is inevitable. it's going to happen. you're going to win a lot more often the bigger equity edge you have, but losing as a favorite isn't impossible.

but the goal of poker isn't to not take beats or avoid them. the goal is to make money off of your +ev decisions and take advantage of players that make -ev decisions. that's it. better decisions, more profit. results don't matter in the long term.

lets take this scenario. lets say i challenge you to a game of dice rolling. the rules are, we both put a $1 wager. if you roll a 1-5, you win the $2 pot. if you roll a 6, i win the $2 pot. we can play as long as you like. would you like to play?

this should absolutely be a 100% 'yes' from you because you're making so much value from this game. you're making, on average, $1.49 with each roll of the dice. why would you not want to play this game? but lets say, you get unlucky and you roll a 6 10x in a row. pretty bad, right? i guess you should give up you're getting so many bad beats, right? no! of course not because you know you're still making so much value off the game. you just want to keep going. in fact, you might ask to up the ante so you can make even more money.

the same thing goes with poker. even if you lose as an 83% favorite in poker, you should keep doing the same thing because you're winning so much in the long term. you might lose as an 83 favorite in 1 game or 20 games, but it's still profitable. plus, unlike the dice game, poker isn't just a 1 hand game. you might lose as an 83% favorite 20x in a row, but there are so many others hands you're playing where you're winning. you might win as a 60% favorite 30x in a row, or a 75% favorite 20/25 times, etc. and at the same time, you're folding to huge bets when you're only a 10% favorite and not giving up value.

so, it all adds up. you're focusing on making +ev decisions with all your hands, strong or weak. as long as you keep it up, you're going to profit. the more money you can get it with as a huge favorite, the more you make. the less money you can lose as a huge underdog, the more you make.

Is it just coincidence that I happen to have learned more in the last few weeks AND I'm also taking so many bad beats?
...i answered this above but real quick, it's not that that you're taking more bad beats, you're just going to realize your losses a bit more as you make your +ev decisions.

I am really eager to take down a decent tournament on ACR... but it seems to evade me. I've cashed several times in the last few weeks (even made it as far as fifth place), but cannot secure a win...
...mtts are notoriously hard to win, especially with large fields, long late registrations, and flat payout structures.

winning an mtt takes a ton of luck and the bigger the field, the more luck you're going to need. in a field of 1000 players, assuming no re-entry or re-buy, you have a .1% chance to win if skill level is equal. you might win more if you're a much better player than the field, but it's still going to be something like 2-3 wins/1000 mtts played.

the popularity win mtts is that anyone can get lucky with them. someone can potentially go all in every and and win an mtt. how often is that going to happen? very very rarely, but it isn't impossible. and that's the difference where skill and luck comes in. you're virtually never going to win a mtt on on luck alone, but you're never going to win an mtt on just skill alone. it's combination of both. i don't want to go too deep into this because it's such so much but, basically, skill allows you to avoid -ev spots and to put yourself into +ev situations. then after that it's just a bit of luck. if you can get your stack in as an 80% favorite, whether you win or lose is just luck from that point. it's out of your control. you're never going to win an mtt without a bit of luck, but if you're putting yourself in much better positions to win, it's going to happen more often.

another thing is mtt survival vs chip accumulation. what's important to you? for some, surving as long as possible is important in an mtt and they want to avoid taking big risks. you'll see it on cc sometimes where someone will say 'i'd rather just fold and not risk 30-50 big blinds with [big hand] because i can lose and bust out here, but if i fold i can survive much longer.' if the goal it last as long as possible, then fold. but if you want to give yourself a better chance to win, you need chips. its not impossible to still win if you fold and keep 50 big blinds 100% of the time, but i'd argue that taking the +ev risk and having a 100+ bb stack is going to make things much easier for you, even if you do risk busting out of the mtt sometimes.

watch some of the big mtt players on youtube like lex veldhuis and you'll see that they'll get their money with hands like qq for 50+ big blinds preflop because, they know, if they win, they give themselves that more of an edge over the the competition and they increase their chances of winning.

i added a video i watched years back that completely changed my approach to mtts. it was such a simple change for me that allowed to start having huge mtt runs, making numerous final tables, and winning mtts. this on top watching coaching videos, training videos, going through a ton of trial and error, and just making the best decisions i can is how i do well. now, i don't play large mtt fields cant say how i'd do in those, but the same concepts apply. more +ev decisions and get lucky, that's all you can do.

it's important to mention that i don't play large field mtts often. i often play fields sizes of 100-200 players on bet online.
 
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Cooking

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I had been on tilt mode so many times, but it has been a long time that I don't tilt anymore. When I lose a tournament to trash hands, I usually just quit poker for the day or only play freerolls for the rest of the day.
 
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bellicoso

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it's important to mention that i don't play large field mtts often. i often play fields sizes of 100-200 players on bet online.

Thanks for the very detailed answer!! I really appreciate you taking the time to break everything down. I will keep at it... though I may turn my focus to more cash games as well now... anyway, thanks again. It was very helpful and encouraging :D
 
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olesyafarion

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Hi! I first switch to another room. Other game. Sometimes it helps. If I'm not lucky there, I'm looking for other distractions. For example, listen to your favorite, preferably soothing music.
 
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fundiver199

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Tilt management is something, all poker players need to deal with to a smaller or larger extend. At lot of good content has already been created about it. Try to check out the block posts on Blackrain79.com (Nathan Villiams) and the videos on youtube from Gripsed (Evan Jarvis). They are both member of this forum with sticky "ask me..." threads. Just google "tilt" and then these names.

Tilting when you lose to trash hands is also very common, and its usually about entitlement. If the opponent played bad, people feel, they deserve even more to win. But if you think a little deeper about it, why is it worse to lose to bad hands than to good hands? You still lose at the end of the day, and it does not matter, if you lose to J4s, that flopped bottom pair and backdoored into a flush against your flopped set, or if you lose, because your AK ran into AA, and all the chips went in preflop.

In fact you want that guy, who play J4s incorrectly, to be in your game, because you are going to be massively profitable against him in the long run, just not this time. Whereas with the AA guy your only consolation is, that sooner or later you will have AA, when he have AK, and then he will also lose his chips to you. But you are never going to win big from people, who play well.

So first off all you need to learn to truly embrace bad players and just laugh about it, when they get lucky. They are your friends not your enemy. This might sound very "holy", and to be honest I also get annoyed, when that hypothetical set vs. J4s situation happen, and I lose most of my chips. But I can manage it, so that it does not cause me to spew chips in future hands. I also dont feel a need to berate the person in the chat. I just say nothing and move on, or maybe occationally I throw a tomato in 888 Poker for a bad beat.

The second point is to have a proper long term perspective. A lot of people are impatient and want fast results. For instance they might play satellites to target tournaments, which they are not bankrolled for. So when they finally win that ticket for the target tournament, its devastating, when that runner-runner flush happen and kill their dream.

Instead you want to use a grinders approach. Deposit some reasonable amount of money, which is at least 100$ or maybe even 500$, if you have previous experience playing poker. And then start to play either cash games or tournaments never risking more than 5% of your bankroll on a cash game hand and never more than 1% on a tournament just to line up some simple and easy to remember rules.

And then play a lot. Variance in poker last longer, than most people expect, so even winning players are going to be down regularly, if you look at small samples like 10.000 cash game hands or 100 tournaments.
 
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sergey3

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Cmoon guy, you make this sound so difficult.

I can give you my secret. As Jared Tendler (poker mental game coach) defines tilt, it is anger + bad play.

So, I listen to this and I can recommend: https://stevegjones.com/buy/hypnosis-mp3s/letting-go-of-anger-platinum-mp3/

With my experience I saw results after 3 days, so powerful.
I listened to the demo audio. Yes it is strong, I flew away from the first 10 seconds. And it seems I really became calmer))) self-hypnosis works, thanks)))
I understand you correctly, do you listen to this demo every time, every day, to be calm? Or did you buy the entire series of audio hypnosis?
 
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sergey3

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i don't tilt because i don't care about losing against worst hands. what's the point of wasting time and energy being upset whenever i lose against opponents that i have an equity edge over when i'm winning so much value in the long run? that's just silly.

no matter how bad the short term negative variance is, it's doesn't mean anything in the long run. profit in poker comes from long term +ev decisions. keep making the +ev decisions, ignore the bad results.
The most offensive thing is to fly out in front of the cash zone, and as a rule there are enough chips to sit out, but the strength of the hand does not allow you to fold, and at this moment you very often lose a lot of chips, it becomes difficult to get into the money. Or even leave the tournament just a step away from money (
 
infonazar

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What methods do you use to avoid tilting? If you lose to trash cards. I'm on the verge of breaking down ... how can I keep myself from wasting my accumulated bankroll?
Help) my be tea with melissa? Will help?


My method is very simple. I just try to make good thoughtful decisions and regardless of the results, I am always satisfied with myself and my game.
 
Shakes

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I always went to Music or an angry comedian route to settle myself down. Always put on Random Anger skit from George Carlin afterwards to help. Is it wrong I almost have that skit memorized now verbatim? I should take up meditation or something.
 
wagon596

wagon596

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For me I just quit for the day and read a book. Been rough the last few days.
 
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ph_il

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The most offensive thing is to fly out in front of the cash zone, and as a rule there are enough chips to sit out, but the strength of the hand does not allow you to fold, and at this moment you very often lose a lot of chips, it becomes difficult to get into the money. Or even leave the tournament just a step away from money (
eh, i don't care about a min-cash, so this doesn't bother me. plus, if you follow strict bankroll management, you've prepared yourself to take some swings.
 
poker_bro

poker_bro

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I listened to the demo audio. Yes it is strong, I flew away from the first 10 seconds. And it seems I really became calmer))) self-hypnosis works, thanks)))
I understand you correctly, do you listen to this demo every time, every day, to be calm? Or did you buy the entire series of audio hypnosis?

I listen every night when I am going to sleep. First thing I bought was this: https://stevegjones.com/buy/hypnosis-programs/millionaire-mastery-blueprint-five-weeks-to-success/

Very powerful program and I can say that really changed me as a person and my game improved a lot. I have bought more audios later and going to buy soon more. Very small investment - amazing results.

There is also own audio for poker: https://stevegjones.com/buy/hypnosis-mp3s/improve-poker-playing-platinum-mp3/

I can't say does it help, I didn't see any significant results. But I listened to it only for one week, recommendation is one month. But there is anyway money-back guarantee if not satisfied, if I remember right.
 
owler

owler

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how to deal with tilt according to Daniel Negreanu

1) Stand Responsible For Your Results
2) Three Deep Breaths
- Identify Your Thoughts
- Identify Your Feelings
- Identify Your physical Senses
3) Get Present
4) Choose What You Want To Feel
:elefant::elefant:
 
vajavava

vajavava

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Take a brake !!! Dont play with tilt its the baddest thing ever just relax and take a time to see the situation better
 
youri

youri

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I find that being present with your thoughts helps, maybe some meditation and reading. Yesterday, I was playing really well untill I had a Mike Matusow moment that ruined 2 hours of play. Went from +5.60 to minus 5.00 bucks. Losing your A game in 1 moment can really cost you. In the past I would have went for a higher buy in on tilt to try to get it back quickly but, no I decided to quit for a couple hours, took some deep breaths,meditated and picked up a book. Reading might help cause it will get your mind into a more calm logical rational thought process and will get your focus back, push your emotions to the way side, cause tilt is really just an usless emotion in poker, its anger.
 
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UkoChebuko

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Hitting the desk with the head really helps. You will be kinda dizzy, unfocused. But calm...Definitely calm...
 
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