Getiing better at poker is making me tilt

[bigredwolf]

I have been studying and playing a lot over the last few months and I am sure I have improved my poker knowledge. Although my results have improved and my A-game is much better, I am finding I am going on tilt a lot more, so I am more often not playing my best. I hardly ever used to tilt before, maybe ignorance is bliss!


Having thought about why I came up with three new types of tilt I am feeling:

1. Entitlement Tilt – I know so much more so I should win all the time and get frustrated if I don't. I saw this one early and I think I am over it now.
2. I am the Best Tilt – since I can now recognize the leaks in my opponents play, I expect to beat them all the time so I should play every hand and win every hand. Wrong!
3. More Bad Beat Tilt – I feel I am having more bad beats. This is in part simply due to playing more volume. I aslo think it is because I am playing better, so am more often losing with a good hand , rather than just having a bad hand.

I think I have got a handle on 1 and 2, but 3 is becoming a problem. Is it even true? Here is an example of why I think it is:


Say I used to get to showdown as a 2-1 favourite, (67% EV) , 3 out of 10 times, so on average that would be one bad beat every 10 showdowns. Now I am playing better perhaps I am in this position 6/10 times, so that would mean 2/10 bad beats, that is twice as many. Plus I am playing an extra 50% volume, so that would mean I would face 3 times as many bad beats in a day than before. Plus a more aggressive playing style means I am involved in 33% more showdowns making it 4 times as many!


Well, maybe I don't have 4x more bad beats, but it certainly is happening more than before.

Has anyone else experienced increased tilt as they learn more? How do you deal with it?


Thanks!

 

[eetenor]

I have been studying and playing a lot over the last few months and I am sure I have improved my poker knowledge. Although my results have improved and my A-game is much better, I am finding I am going on tilt a lot more, so I am more often not playing my best. I hardly ever used to tilt before, maybe ignorance is bliss!


Having thought about why I came up with three new types of tilt I am feeling:

2. Entitlement Tilt – I know so much more so I should win all the time and get frustrated if I don't. I saw this one early and I think I am over it now.
3. I am the Best Tilt – since I can now recognize the leaks in my opponents play, I expect to beat them all the time so I should play every hand and win every hand. Wrong!
4. More Bad Beat Tilt – I feel I am having more bad beats. This is in part simply due to playing more volume. I aslo think it is because I am playing better, so am more often losing with a good hand , rather than just having a bad hand.

I think I have got a handle on 1 and 2, but 3 is becoming a problem. Is it even true? Here is an example of why I think it is:


Say I used to get to showdown as a 2-1 favourite, (67% EV) , 3 out of 10 times, so on average that would be one bad beat every 10 showdowns. Now I am playing better perhaps I am in this position 6/10 times, so that would mean 2/10 bad beats, that is twice as many. Plus I am playing an extra 50% volume, so that would mean I would face 3 times as many bad beats in a day than before. Plus a more aggressive playing style means I am involved in 33% more showdowns making it 4 times as many!


Well, maybe I don't have 4x more bad beats, but it certainly is happening more than before.

Has anyone else experienced increased tilt as they learn more? How do you deal with it?


Thanks!

Thank U 4 posting

Good players tilt it is why Jared Tendler has a job coaching mindset

Dealing with tilt begins with recognizing it, as you showed above then understanding your triggers and being prepared for it before it happens not during or after.

If you have not purchased Jared’s books that is your first step. He is excellent at showing us how to train ourselves to not tilt.


Hope this helps

 

[bigredwolf]

Thank U 4 posting

Good players tilt it is why Jared Tendler has a job coaching mindset

Dealing with tilt begins with recognizing it, as you showed above then understanding your triggers and being prepared for it before it happens not during or after.

If you have not purchased Jared’s books that is your first step. He is excellent at showing us how to train ourselves to not tilt.


Hope this helps

Great answer! I have not read his books ,but read the section he wrote in Jonathan Little's book Excelling at No Limit Holdem, which is where I got the idea for the "types of tilt" format I wrote my post in.
I will have to check out those books now :icon_thum

 

[Therminator]

You are cursed with knowledge knowing that people are sucking out against you. Best thing you can do is play good poker and when you start to tilt to take a bit of a break until you have refocused.

 

[ph_il]

it could be the fact that you are running deeper in mtts, which could make losing hit a little harder. a player losing 1 spot from the final table is going to hurt more than losing 100 spots from the final table. there is a lot more at risk in value the deeper you get as payout is much higher.

however, with that said, i still think it's important to focus on your +ev decisions and not the results. as you have mentioned, more volume = more chances of your big hands going bust, but that's just something that's going to happen. the thing with poker is, your big hands are going to win most of the time and sometimes they're going to lose. and, at times, they're going to win/lose at insignificant parts of an mtt and the other times, they're going to be pretty significant wins/losses. for example:

• having your aces win/lose at the early stages of an mtt for 20 bbs (out of 100 bbs starting) might not be that significant. you still have a long ways to go in the mtt.
• having your aces win/lose 5 spots from the final table when you have 50 bbs and get in pre for 45 bbs effective will be a significant win/loss. if you win, you likely propel yourself to a big stack at the final table. but, if you lose, you likely miss the final table.

it's those significant wins/losses that really hit. and i can't tell you how many deep runs ive made only to get hit by 2-3 unfortunate results to bust me out. i say unfortunate results because i don't see them as bad beats. honestly, no loss is ever that bad imo but i will use the term 'bad beat' for simplicity. a player with 30% equity is still beating me 3/10x. and i know there are plenty of times where i get in behind and win, so it balances out; sometimes i'm the favorite and sometimes i'm the underdog.

so, how do i deal with it? i focus on making +ev decisions. it doesn't matter if i bust out of 50 mtts in a row due to significant bad beats late in the game. obviously i'm not going to be the favorite every time, but lets say 75% of the time, i get it in ahead or ~38/50 busts are 'bad beat'. what's important is that i keep doing the same thing because, if my big hands hold on that 51st mtt and i win it, it completely nullifies the past 50 mtts i played and losses i went through.

who cares about 38 bad beats in 50 mtts? the point of an mtt isn't to make up for bad beats, the goal is to profit. or to win and profit because doing both is great. so, lets say i lose 50 buy-ins a row, but on the 51st game, i make a 150 buy-in profit. guess what? i'm not thinking about those bad beats anymore. not that i was thinking about them anyway, but i'm thinking 'well, i won and made 150 buy-ins, but i still had 38 bad beats.' who cares? it doesn't matter. 50/51 mtts, i tried my best to make as many +ev decisions as i could and it didn't work out. the 51st game did work out and that's all that matter.

so, focus on your +ev decisions and ignore the bad beats that are going to happen. mtts have a ton of variance and you're going to bust out of them a lot, trust me. every pro mtt player has busted out of more games than they have cashed in or won. that's just how the game goes. so, don't waste your energy focusing on something that is going to happen a countless number of times in an mtt because that's just silly.

 

[Evan Jarvis]

I have been studying and playing a lot over the last few months and I am sure I have improved my poker knowledge. Although my results have improved and my A-game is much better, I am finding I am going on tilt a lot more, so I am more often not playing my best. I hardly ever used to tilt before, maybe ignorance is bliss!


Having thought about why I came up with three new types of tilt I am feeling:

2. Entitlement Tilt – I know so much more so I should win all the time and get frustrated if I don't. I saw this one early and I think I am over it now.
3. I am the Best Tilt – since I can now recognize the leaks in my opponents play, I expect to beat them all the time so I should play every hand and win every hand. Wrong!
4. More Bad Beat Tilt – I feel I am having more bad beats. This is in part simply due to playing more volume. I aslo think it is because I am playing better, so am more often losing with a good hand , rather than just having a bad hand.

I think I have got a handle on 1 and 2, but 3 is becoming a problem. Is it even true? Here is an example of why I think it is:


Say I used to get to showdown as a 2-1 favourite, (67% EV) , 3 out of 10 times, so on average that would be one bad beat every 10 showdowns. Now I am playing better perhaps I am in this position 6/10 times, so that would mean 2/10 bad beats, that is twice as many. Plus I am playing an extra 50% volume, so that would mean I would face 3 times as many bad beats in a day than before. Plus a more aggressive playing style means I am involved in 33% more showdowns making it 4 times as many!


Well, maybe I don't have 4x more bad beats, but it certainly is happening more than before.

Has anyone else experienced increased tilt as they learn more? How do you deal with it?


Thanks!

Learning more can definitely lead to higher expectations and overconfidence. You are spot on with your thoughts about entitlement tilt "I've worked harder so i deserve more"

That's where learning about maximum realistic win-rates can be very helpful and remembering the variance in this game. The big wins come from putting in tons of volume and in the short run you are going to lose many pots to players who are 'worse' than you.

From reading your post I think changing your thoughts about 'bad beats' would help too. Once you accept that 10% longshots are going to come in and take away the emotional response to them you'll feel a lot more stable. This also means that you accept that sometimes you'll get there from behind as well.

Calling them 'bad beats' in and of itself is an issue. Just play your best poker, let the cards fall where they may and don't check your results or 'how well you're running' until the session is done.

You may find this video helpful as well

Cheers

 

[bigredwolf]

You may find this video helpful as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of-owVCW6kI

Cheers

Hey Evan,

I did watch this video the day after this post, but it tool me until last week to start implementing some of the ideas in it, mainly because a cracked tooth put me out of action for a while.

I did start writing a journal for one thing, and that is already making a difference. It is definitely a video I will come back to to keep me on track for the long term.


What did have a more immediate effect was this video that it led me to:

I could not believe it when I started watching it and the question was from someone who hit a $400 target and then hit a downswing. That is exactly what was happening to me!

After watching the video, I understood I had been pushing too hard to get to the next level. I took a break, did some studying and went back to my previous level of play. I then cashed in 5 out of my next 6 tournaments. Amazing!

So I would say this video fixed my short term downswing, and the first one will keep me stackin' forever!:dancing2:

Cheers!
Big Red

 

[abpoker]

Yes, for sure. I often just try to tell myself this is the whole reason why poker thrives. If bad players did not make bad decisions and win sometimes because of it, they would stop playing, and all that would be left is good players. And what fun is that.