Jack Daniels
Charcoal Mellowed
Silver Level
Poker is a game of adjustments, this is one of those adjustments. It's a matter of recognizing the situation you're in and modifying your starting hand requirements to adjust for it. And this need not be for every player, the only ones we're really worried about here are the CO and button making more aggressive steal plays (and that is only when it is folded around to them). But knowing this also helps to loosen up our requirements to compensate. But the reality is, they aren't going to simply raise with just anything every single time just because of the empty BB. If they do, then you've picked up more info and can play back at them more aggressively. Add to that the fact that many players out there wouldn't recognize the possible opportunity for extra steals and I don't worry too much about it.
So yes, I am serious when I say no one is getting screwed. Maybe I need to qualify that a bit more and say no one is getting screwed in that SB if they know/understand how to compensate for the situation. But even when they don't know or can't understand, I don't agree they are getting screwed...they have a leak in their game that others can capitalize on.
Bombjack
Legend
Silver Level
It's very rude to leave a cash game with more chips than you started with. Other players will tell you off for running away with their moneys. Sitting out doesn't work; you should declare "I'm steaming now" and proceed to bluff off any winnings you might have accumulated so far. The winner is the person who can stay longest at the table basically.
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
The empty Chair dilemna.
I'm sitting here thinking that I have exploited that position much more than I have been victemized by the empty chair being to my left.
When one, or sometimes more empty chairs are directly to my left, and I have become aware of that, it gives me the button by default x more times per orbit than the other positions.
It used to happen most of the time at Party, can we not all remember sitting alone at a table for the entire first hour?????
That being the extreme example, it still happens in many tourneys where several folks forgot they signed up, or got busy.
pokerstars has a clearly visible banner below any player 'sitting out', of the top of this early morning, I cant remember any other site. Perhaps it should become the norm. Then, when shuffling tables a small tweak could be made that would favor moving a player who is 'sitting out' first.
Part at one time looked like they would make an attempt to move sitting out players to the same group of tables.
If I get a ghost to my left, it is not a disadvantage that the CO, or Button can squeeze me once or twice an orbit, it is an advantage cause I get to be the CO or Button 3 or more times per orbit.
I'm sitting here thinking that I have exploited that position much more than I have been victemized by the empty chair being to my left.
When one, or sometimes more empty chairs are directly to my left, and I have become aware of that, it gives me the button by default x more times per orbit than the other positions.
It used to happen most of the time at Party, can we not all remember sitting alone at a table for the entire first hour?????
That being the extreme example, it still happens in many tourneys where several folks forgot they signed up, or got busy.
pokerstars has a clearly visible banner below any player 'sitting out', of the top of this early morning, I cant remember any other site. Perhaps it should become the norm. Then, when shuffling tables a small tweak could be made that would favor moving a player who is 'sitting out' first.
Part at one time looked like they would make an attempt to move sitting out players to the same group of tables.
If I get a ghost to my left, it is not a disadvantage that the CO, or Button can squeeze me once or twice an orbit, it is an advantage cause I get to be the CO or Button 3 or more times per orbit.
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
As for the 'guy' thing.
Clearly you started off on a more correct path than many of us did. I am still unlearning many of the bad poker habits I picked up before computers where invented.
The idea of a 'virgin' mind to mold into a poker player will perk most of the folks here into a mentor/mentoree frame of mind, and if the mentoree was known as such by the 'folks' it would be such a unique experience as to be enjoyable to most of us, and possibly profitable to the recipient of a groups collective knowledge and wisdom.
Was just a stray random thought that I probably overexpressed.
Clearly you started off on a more correct path than many of us did. I am still unlearning many of the bad poker habits I picked up before computers where invented.
The idea of a 'virgin' mind to mold into a poker player will perk most of the folks here into a mentor/mentoree frame of mind, and if the mentoree was known as such by the 'folks' it would be such a unique experience as to be enjoyable to most of us, and possibly profitable to the recipient of a groups collective knowledge and wisdom.
Was just a stray random thought that I probably overexpressed.
aliengenius
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
This is an excellent point.
arahel_jazz
Unbalanced and Committed
Silver Level
I've had a unique situation once where I had to leave when sitting at a final table heads up. (play money - would never leave cash game).
Because on-line sites don't let you chop, I just bet a few dollars short of my stack and folded to the opponent on the river. Yes, I know, it's chip dumping, but it didn't matter to me if I was first or second.
It just kills me when somebody says "I gotta go", pushes, then sucks out a win. More than once.
Just stand up and let the blinds eat your stack. It's pretty obvious when every hand it insta-folds. Min raise from the button and you will keep from giving them the walk.
Because on-line sites don't let you chop, I just bet a few dollars short of my stack and folded to the opponent on the river. Yes, I know, it's chip dumping, but it didn't matter to me if I was first or second.
It just kills me when somebody says "I gotta go", pushes, then sucks out a win. More than once.
Just stand up and let the blinds eat your stack. It's pretty obvious when every hand it insta-folds. Min raise from the button and you will keep from giving them the walk.
F
Figment6
Rock Star
Silver Level
Wow! It appears I opened a can of worms. To be honest, I didn't quite comprehend all the rules when I signed on. I'm learning them fast now. I appreciate all the input.
One thing I am learning is just like the people who write, there is a diversity of opinions. I have chosen to just be quiet and either play or just leave if necessary.
When I first started out, I had NO IDEA how long these games could last! BTW, I was asking only about freerolls. The few cash games I've played, I hang on for dear life. Usually because I for some reason fear losing that $1 more. It's funny since $1 is nothing when it comes to a lottery ticket!
Again, thank you all for the advice... now please, play nice. I didn't mean to start any trouble.:embarasse
One thing I am learning is just like the people who write, there is a diversity of opinions. I have chosen to just be quiet and either play or just leave if necessary.
When I first started out, I had NO IDEA how long these games could last! BTW, I was asking only about freerolls. The few cash games I've played, I hang on for dear life. Usually because I for some reason fear losing that $1 more. It's funny since $1 is nothing when it comes to a lottery ticket!
Again, thank you all for the advice... now please, play nice. I didn't mean to start any trouble.:embarasse
Jack Daniels
Charcoal Mellowed
Silver Level
You didn't start any trouble, we like a good clean debate around here. There were no flames and such. Just different opinions taking opposite positions. No worries.
Keep posting, you'll soon be mixed up in it all too.
F
Figment6
Rock Star
Silver Level
Thanks JackD.
I need to go check out that link that was posted earlier about Phil Ivey! I still haven't seen that.
I have another question for you all. What is it that on final tables (again mostly freerolls) that people play bad cards with high bets? I have folded so many 'winners' when all is said & done because of that.
Am I missing something here, or am I just unlucky enough to end up on tables with worse newbies/donkeys than I?
I made it through Round 1 of a PAD tournament, and in round 2 it got just plain ugly. 2, 9 off-suite, all in, someone called, (not me I) and the person with 2-9 loses a huge stack of chips. Or the one who repeatedly bets and when the hands get shown you wonder why anyone would bet those! Inevitably they end up getting the hand on the 5th card! Arrrggghhh.
I understand the bluff, but come on! Is there a strategy here I am missing? I'm not referring to chip bullies either. They may have roughly the same amount as everyone else on the table. Strange game this poker... BUT I'm still enjoying it!
I need to go check out that link that was posted earlier about Phil Ivey! I still haven't seen that.
I have another question for you all. What is it that on final tables (again mostly freerolls) that people play bad cards with high bets? I have folded so many 'winners' when all is said & done because of that.
Am I missing something here, or am I just unlucky enough to end up on tables with worse newbies/donkeys than I?
I made it through Round 1 of a PAD tournament, and in round 2 it got just plain ugly. 2, 9 off-suite, all in, someone called, (not me I) and the person with 2-9 loses a huge stack of chips. Or the one who repeatedly bets and when the hands get shown you wonder why anyone would bet those! Inevitably they end up getting the hand on the 5th card! Arrrggghhh.
I understand the bluff, but come on! Is there a strategy here I am missing? I'm not referring to chip bullies either. They may have roughly the same amount as everyone else on the table. Strange game this poker... BUT I'm still enjoying it!
F
FinalTable
Rock Star
Silver Level
I just started reading Super System by Doyle. He talks about that. He says that if you put your opponent on a pair of Js and you can't beat and you push hard, than that's not aggressive - that's stupid (his words).
The more you bluff, the more your bluffs will be called. If you bluff, you DON'T want a call. So to successfully bluff, you need to get caught once or twice at a table, but don't overdue it.
In one of the mags that I read (Bluff, or All-In) a pro was asked by a reader what to do - she was playing and because she was a female, she was underestimated and she was always called. She could never bluff because she was always called. So she asked how to successfully bluff when in that situation. It was a simple answer - then don't bluff. If you are getting called anyway, than don't bluff. A bluff is best used to set up other players to call you later when you have a hand. If they are calling you anyway, then don't bluff.
When I bluff, I'll fire at a pot, and if I meet resistence, and I have NOTHING, I'll lay it down. Unless I'm just shortstacked and have a low M, I won't push w/ a 2-9 on a bluff. I may go all-in on a semi-bluff (have like pair of 10s...but it's top pair and a flush draw). Then I'll overbet the 10s knowing I have outs if called...and maybe the 10s will be enough on their own.
Anyway - thought it was relevent. Doyle noted the diff between playing stupid and aggressive.
The more you bluff, the more your bluffs will be called. If you bluff, you DON'T want a call. So to successfully bluff, you need to get caught once or twice at a table, but don't overdue it.
In one of the mags that I read (Bluff, or All-In) a pro was asked by a reader what to do - she was playing and because she was a female, she was underestimated and she was always called. She could never bluff because she was always called. So she asked how to successfully bluff when in that situation. It was a simple answer - then don't bluff. If you are getting called anyway, than don't bluff. A bluff is best used to set up other players to call you later when you have a hand. If they are calling you anyway, then don't bluff.
When I bluff, I'll fire at a pot, and if I meet resistence, and I have NOTHING, I'll lay it down. Unless I'm just shortstacked and have a low M, I won't push w/ a 2-9 on a bluff. I may go all-in on a semi-bluff (have like pair of 10s...but it's top pair and a flush draw). Then I'll overbet the 10s knowing I have outs if called...and maybe the 10s will be enough on their own.
Anyway - thought it was relevent. Doyle noted the diff between playing stupid and aggressive.