Early 3bet-fold

killing_random

killing_random

Rock Star
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Total posts
351
Is 3bet-folding is worst for us at early tournament's state (when there still many players left at the table) rather than at the bubble?
Then we should 3bet-call repushes more often and win or bust right away, rather than become smallest stack at the table so early... Or what?
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,295
Awards
1
Early in the tournament stacks are typically deep, and against the vast majority of opponents we need to have hands, that 3-bet but fold to a 4-bet. Otherwise we are either not 3-betting them enough, or we are paying off their 4-bets with to many bad hands. In reality people dont 4-bet bluff all that much, so its totally fine to take a hand like AJo or AQo and 3-bet it but then fold to a 4-bet.

Yes we lost maybe 7BB, but often we also protected ourselfes from getting into a reverse implied odds situation, when we flop top pair, but they have us outkicked with AK, or they have an overpair. While "information" is never the main purpose of a bet or raise, it is actually a usefull side product. If we just flatcall with AJ or AQ, they have still have their entire opening range, but when we ask them a question by 3-betting them, and they respond with a 4-bet, we can usually narrow down their range a lot.
 
killing_random

killing_random

Rock Star
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Total posts
351
Early in the tournament stacks are typically deep, and against the vast majority of opponents we need to have hands, that 3-bet but fold to a 4-bet. Otherwise we are either not 3-betting them enough, or we are paying off their 4-bets with to many bad hands. In reality people dont 4-bet bluff all that much, so its totally fine to take a hand like AJo or AQo and 3-bet it but then fold to a 4-bet.

Yes we lost maybe 7BB, but often we also protected ourselfes from getting into a reverse implied odds situation, when we flop top pair, but they have us outkicked with AK, or they have an overpair. While "information" is never the main purpose of a bet or raise, it is actually a usefull side product. If we just flatcall with AJ or AQ, they have still have their entire opening range, but when we ask them a question by 3-betting them, and they respond with a 4-bet, we can usually narrow down their range a lot.

More certain, I ask because some dude on his stream made a rather shitty call on purpose, explaining, that with so much people left its a bet-call and if there at least five or less then it would be bet-fold.



And I still don't get it :hmmmm2:
 
S

Stickyfish

Rising Star
Joined
Aug 11, 2021
Total posts
20
More certain, I ask because some dude on his stream made a rather shitty call on purpose, explaining, that with so much people left its a bet-call and if there at least five or less then it would be bet-fold.

View attachment 294168

And I still don't get it :hmmmm2:
I think this is not a tournament it is SnG.
And the action is like UTG limps, CUT OFF raises 4bb(standard), and then Big blind jams 15 bbs.
So he is getting like 2:1 odds to make this call i.e at least 33% equity.
With 15bb if this is big blind shoving range 66+, A5s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, A7o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo
Calling with KQo is +EV cause he will have like 47% equity.
 
killing_random

killing_random

Rock Star
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Total posts
351
I think this is not a tournament it is SnG.
And the action is like UTG limps, CUT OFF raises 4bb(standard), and then Big blind jams 15 bbs.
So he is getting like 2:1 odds to make this call i.e at least 33% equity.
With 15bb if this is big blind shoving range 66+, A5s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, A7o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo
Calling with KQo is +EV cause he will have like 47% equity.

...But I still don't get what the number of players left has to do with that.
 
Luvepoker

Luvepoker

Lost in the twilight zone
Community Guide
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Total posts
3,608
Awards
21
US
Its really more about the player we are against. I can easily fold my 3 bet deep or late in a tournament depending on the player. There are some people who will push widely and others only aces and kings. Its fine to fold though.
 
Folding in Poker
Top