Edison A
Legend
Bronze Level
Excellent point of view, thanks!
Edison A
Legend
Bronze Level
I agree, sometimes we want more than 1 player to CALL, but it is dangerous to play Pocket AA against more than 1 player
Polytarp
Legend
Bronze Level
Though I don't disagree and have played in pots holding AA beating out KK, QQ all-in, how would you quantify "dangerous?" In blackjack there's the concept of cross-correlated bets but in poker you need to address hand-ranges, position, bet sizing and a couple of other things. How would you "calculate" your bet sizing when holding AA relative to position in a 9 handed game?
Cheers.
N
nwhitney118
Rock Star
Silver Level
The more people in the hand, the less likely you are to win hence the "danger" increasing. Typically you want to raise bigger from early position, so maybe raise 3-4x from UTG compared to just 2-2.5x on the button.
In answer to the original question: I think most people raise and even bet pre with aces, but when a really wet board comes down they CANNOT fold because "muh aces tho". They'll call down even when it's incredibly obvious they're beat through emotional attachment to the rockets.
In answer to the original question: I think most people raise and even bet pre with aces, but when a really wet board comes down they CANNOT fold because "muh aces tho". They'll call down even when it's incredibly obvious they're beat through emotional attachment to the rockets.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
The main one is actually in the way, this question is written. It is the assumption, that if we have AA, we are supposed to always win. This causes people to take AA to far postflop and lose to much, when someone did in fact crack them. The other general mistake is slowplaying them to much preflop and on the flop. Most of the time AA wont improve, and this mean, the relative strength of the hand goes down, as more cards are dealt. It is therefore almost always better to get the money in early rather than late, when perhaps we are actually beat.
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
It's important to distinguish between times we lose and played correctly, versus times we lose and made a mistake.
AA vs KK pre-flop: We still lose ~ 20% of the time. We won long-term EV and shouldn't worry because there's nothing we could do different.
If you make a mistake, it's often going to be taking the hand too far post-flop with deep stacks. For example:
We raise pre-flop with As Ac and get three callers.
Flop: 7h 6h 5h
Action: First player bets, second player calls, third player raises. This is a clear fold; if we put any more money in the pot, we are making a mistake (unless stacks are very short!)
AA vs KK pre-flop: We still lose ~ 20% of the time. We won long-term EV and shouldn't worry because there's nothing we could do different.
If you make a mistake, it's often going to be taking the hand too far post-flop with deep stacks. For example:
We raise pre-flop with As Ac and get three callers.
Flop: 7h 6h 5h
Action: First player bets, second player calls, third player raises. This is a clear fold; if we put any more money in the pot, we are making a mistake (unless stacks are very short!)
Edison A
Legend
Bronze Level
Of course, aggressiveness is important, Thanks for your comment
Edison A
Legend
Bronze Level
Thanks Collin for your comment, it will help this thread a lot :ciao:
ObbleeXY
Visionary
Bronze Level
For me, this has changed over time. Previously, I used to see this as a wet dream and would just shove. I didn't pay attention to my position, who sat in other positions, pot size, VPIP, etc.
The pendulum swung the other way to underplaying them for a while. I bled less, but I still wasn't achieving much value.
Now, I'd have to say that there are two sides. Pre-flop and Post. Whilst conventional wisdom for some is 3-4BB raise pre-flop, it really depends on the table...so I tend to consider the "equivalent 3X" raise size.
At some tables, a 3BB is treated as little more than an ante. At others people can't fold fast enough when a raise this size comes in. It is not always proportional to stack size.
After the flop, C-betting a wet board rather than just taking my lumps and folding is where I bleed (or perhaps bled) excessively. I might have spent an hour working up a tidy stack just to CB it away on crappy Aces.
All in all, I'd rather play them than not! still finding the sweet spot as to how to play them to which audience.
Edison A
Legend
Bronze Level
You are right, thanks for your comment
slicheri93
Legend
Bronze Level
Probably cause we limp to much and let them get there
sometimes id rather go all-in preflop with AA instead of limpin a 3x etc
and letting them get a cheap flop with 22-1010's suited hands like 78 j9 10j etc and binkin something on the flop.. hurts when you lose those hands when you limp trying to trap them..
sometimes id rather go all-in preflop with AA instead of limpin a 3x etc
and letting them get a cheap flop with 22-1010's suited hands like 78 j9 10j etc and binkin something on the flop.. hurts when you lose those hands when you limp trying to trap them..
Propane Goat
Grinder and paint make me the welder I ain't
Moderator
Many players have a significant issue with thinking that holding AA entitles them to win a huge pot and that if they didn't win then they were cheated. This theme pops up a lot in complaints about bad beats.
We have to remember that AA is just one pair which can be beat much more easily that we often think. 76 suited will beat AA by the river over 20% of the time: that's more than 1 in 5 AIPF hands that you're going to lose.
We have to remember that AA is just one pair which can be beat much more easily that we often think. 76 suited will beat AA by the river over 20% of the time: that's more than 1 in 5 AIPF hands that you're going to lose.
Edison A
Legend
Bronze Level
Very good comment, doing Limp is a mistake
Edison A
Legend
Bronze Level
The most common complaints are that the system is rigged, but we do an analysis after losing our hand, we realize the mistakes we made
Having Pokets AA does not guarantee that you will win the hand
perrypip
Rock Star
Silver Level
How do I quantify dangerous? Against a single hand you're about 85% with your aces. Against 2 it goes down to 70%. Against 3 you're down to about 60%. Against 4 you're a little over 50%. And then it's all downhill from there.
But if you just get a single caller there's a chance they will fold to your cbet because they have nothing and don't want to continue. So while 2 or 3 callers increases the risk, it also increase the chances you will get action.
As for bet sizing, I don't want to give away the strength of my hand. So I raise or 3 bet with aces the same size as I would other hands I raise or 3 bet with in that spot. The size of my bet depends on the bets or limps in front of me that I am facing and who the players are.