Comments on some beginner PLO hands?

NineLions

NineLions

Advanced beginner
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Total posts
4,979
Some beginner PLO HH questions:


pokerstars Game #17743103354: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2008/05/28 - 00:31:13 (ET)
Table 'Eva IV' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: pistelpete9 ($6 in chips)
Seat 2: Ninelions ($7.10 in chips)
Seat 3: dthwriter ($11.71 in chips)
Seat 4: skit1234 ($4.85 in chips)
Seat 5: g2poker ($13.48 in chips)
skit1234: posts small blind $0.02
g2poker: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ninelions [9c 9h 6d 5d]
pistelpete9: folds
Ninelions: calls $0.05
tenderfoot12 has returned
dthwriter: raises $0.17 to $0.22
skit1234: folds
g2poker: folds
Ninelions:


Good enough to call a raise? He's advertising either AA/KK or he's a NLHE player trying to buy the pot, or both.


PokerStars Game #17743209640: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2008/05/28 - 00:38:02 (ET)
Table 'Eva IV' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: pistelpete9 ($7.22 in chips)
Seat 2: Ninelions ($7.69 in chips)
Seat 3: dthwriter ($15.49 in chips)
Seat 4: kaizersoze87 ($5.93 in chips)
Seat 5: g2poker ($13.36 in chips)
Seat 6: tenderfoot12 ($6.02 in chips)
pistelpete9: posts small blind $0.02
Ninelions: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ninelions [4d 5c 8s 9d]
dthwriter: raises $0.12 to $0.17
kaizersoze87: calls $0.17
g2poker: folds
tenderfoot12: folds
pistelpete9: folds
Ninelions:

Call a raise and a call with this? Not likely to be dominated, but no flush possibilities.


PokerStars Game #17743281209: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2008/05/28 - 00:42:44 (ET)
Table 'Eva IV' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: pistelpete9 ($10.40 in chips)
Seat 2: Ninelions ($7.59 in chips)
Seat 4: kaizersoze87 ($7.88 in chips)
Seat 5: g2poker ($13.14 in chips)
Seat 6: tenderfoot12 ($4.52 in chips)
tenderfoot12: posts small blind $0.02
pistelpete9: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ninelions [Jh Qh 8d 8s]
Ninelions: calls $0.05
kaizersoze87: folds
g2poker: folds
tenderfoot12: calls $0.03
pistelpete9: checks
*** FLOP *** [Tc 4c Jd]
tenderfoot12: checks
pistelpete9: checks
Ninelions: checks
*** TURN *** [Tc 4c Jd] 8♥
tenderfoot12: checks
pistelpete9: bets $0.10
Ninelions: raises $0.20 to $0.30

Doesn't look like a made straight bet, and I've hit a set, time to raise?


So far the players at this level seem to be a lot of NLHE players who forget they have to use two cards or are overaggressive with decent NL hands like two pair. In four tables in three sessions (got bored in the last one and two tabled in spite of the fact I still can't read hands fast enough) I've had three up and one down session. It seems to work if I'm aggressive when I have a hand, but also to call down when I have a marginal hand 'cause they're often overvaluing their hands.

And, one more from a 0.10 tourney,

PokerStars Game #17684999110: Tournament #89666855, $0.10+$0.00 Omaha Pot Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2008/05/25 - 15:55:21 (ET)
Table '89666855 37' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: PlainOldMe (8070 in chips)
Seat 2: Ninelions (5570 in chips)
Seat 3: Lowerhay (5210 in chips)
Seat 4: JedWords (5970 in chips)
Seat 5: tryingbest (2405 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: JJ1733 (3560 in chips)
PlainOldMe: posts small blind 100
Ninelions: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ninelions [Qh Ah 3s Jc]
Lowerhay: folds
JedWords: calls 200
tryingbest: folds
JJ1733: folds
PlainOldMe: calls 100
Ninelions: checks
*** FLOP *** [Kd Th 8s]
PlainOldMe: checks
Ninelions: checks
JedWords: bets 400
PlainOldMe: folds
Ninelions: calls 400
*** TURN *** [Kd Th 8s] 8♥
Ninelions: checks
JedWords: bets 1400
Ninelions: ????

I was looking for any of my cards to pair to make the straight, but instead picked up the nut flush draw. Or, I could be dead to a boat.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
Joined
May 25, 2005
Total posts
5,587
1) - toss up call or fold. Could call and hope for 7,8 or a 9. You should be able to get away from flop easily if you miss. Or you could just let him have it.

2) Happier to call this - extra person in the pot, and plenty of well hidden straight possibilities (though be wary of course of hitting the bottom end of the straight).

3) What would a made straight bet look like then? I'd have probably bet the flop, and would be calling here.

4) Difficult, he's bet too much (in my opinion) for him to have a full house - I would have thought he would play it a bit cuter, and hope that you catch a straight (which would be likely from the board). Problem is, if you come over the top of him, he's probably not good enough to put 2 pair down.

I'd push, i'd be wanting to get a move on in a 10 cent tournament and I dont like folding (big leak), but generally it's a mistake to draw to a flush or straight (even with 21 outs and correct odds) if the board has paired. You'd have to go by your observations of the table, if players are roughly of the same ability you are going to get into a big/hand v loads of outs coin toss sooner or later, so why not sooner?
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Total posts
12,422
PokerStars Game #17743103354: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2008/05/28 - 00:31:13 (ET)
Table 'Eva IV' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: pistelpete9 ($6 in chips)
Seat 2: Ninelions ($7.10 in chips)
Seat 3: dthwriter ($11.71 in chips)
Seat 4: skit1234 ($4.85 in chips)
Seat 5: g2poker ($13.48 in chips)
skit1234: posts small blind $0.02
g2poker: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ninelions [9c 9h 6d 5d]
pistelpete9: folds
Ninelions: calls $0.05
tenderfoot12 has returned
dthwriter: raises $0.17 to $0.22
skit1234: folds
g2poker: folds
Ninelions:

Raising preflop allows you to easily fold to a reraise. Much like holdem there are few situations where we should be limping first in in Omaha. As played you're certainly deep enough to call and play fit or fold on the flop.

PokerStars Game #17743209640: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2008/05/28 - 00:38:02 (ET)
Table 'Eva IV' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: pistelpete9 ($7.22 in chips)
Seat 2: Ninelions ($7.69 in chips)
Seat 3: dthwriter ($15.49 in chips)
Seat 4: kaizersoze87 ($5.93 in chips)
Seat 5: g2poker ($13.36 in chips)
Seat 6: tenderfoot12 ($6.02 in chips)
pistelpete9: posts small blind $0.02
Ninelions: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ninelions [4d 5c 8s 9d]
dthwriter: raises $0.12 to $0.17
kaizersoze87: calls $0.17
g2poker: folds
tenderfoot12: folds
pistelpete9: folds
Ninelions:

Your hand is garbage especially to a UTG raise and a UTG+1 call (even at $5PL) and this is a standard fold.

PokerStars Game #17743281209: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2008/05/28 - 00:42:44 (ET)
Table 'Eva IV' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: pistelpete9 ($10.40 in chips)
Seat 2: Ninelions ($7.59 in chips)
Seat 4: kaizersoze87 ($7.88 in chips)
Seat 5: g2poker ($13.14 in chips)
Seat 6: tenderfoot12 ($4.52 in chips)
tenderfoot12: posts small blind $0.02
pistelpete9: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ninelions [Jh Qh 8d 8s]
Ninelions: calls $0.05
kaizersoze87: folds
g2poker: folds
tenderfoot12: calls $0.03
pistelpete9: checks
*** FLOP *** [Tc 4c Jd]
tenderfoot12: checks
pistelpete9: checks
Ninelions: checks
*** TURN *** [Tc 4c Jd] 8♥
tenderfoot12: checks
pistelpete9: bets $0.10
Ninelions: raises $0.20 to $0.30

Looks fine, checking the flop OOP here would be okay but in position and checked to I usually stab at it on the flop. Again, raise preflop.

PokerStars Game #17684999110: Tournament #89666855, $0.10+$0.00 Omaha Pot Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2008/05/25 - 15:55:21 (ET)
Table '89666855 37' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: PlainOldMe (8070 in chips)
Seat 2: Ninelions (5570 in chips)
Seat 3: Lowerhay (5210 in chips)
Seat 4: JedWords (5970 in chips)
Seat 5: tryingbest (2405 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: JJ1733 (3560 in chips)
PlainOldMe: posts small blind 100
Ninelions: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ninelions [Qh Ah 3s Jc]
Lowerhay: folds
JedWords: calls 200
tryingbest: folds
JJ1733: folds
PlainOldMe: calls 100
Ninelions: checks
*** FLOP *** [Kd Th 8s]
PlainOldMe: checks
Ninelions: checks
JedWords: bets 400
PlainOldMe: folds
Ninelions: calls 400
*** TURN *** [Kd Th 8s] 8♥
Ninelions: checks
JedWords: bets 1400
Ninelions: ????

The paired board veers me towards folding here. If the turn was the 2h then it's very close. We have some FE if we shove the turn and a ton of (likely) outs so that's certainly preferable to just calling.
 
NineLions

NineLions

Advanced beginner
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Total posts
4,979
1) - toss up call or fold. Could call and hope for 7,8 or a 9. You should be able to get away from flop easily if you miss. Or you could just let him have it.

2) Happier to call this - extra person in the pot, and plenty of well hidden straight possibilities (though be wary of course of hitting the bottom end of the straight).

3) What would a made straight bet look like then? I'd have probably bet the flop, and would be calling here.

4) Difficult, he's bet too much (in my opinion) for him to have a full house - I would have thought he would play it a bit cuter, and hope that you catch a straight (which would be likely from the board). Problem is, if you come over the top of him, he's probably not good enough to put 2 pair down.

I'd push, i'd be wanting to get a move on in a 10 cent tournament and I dont like folding (big leak), but generally it's a mistake to draw to a flush or straight (even with 21 outs and correct odds) if the board has paired. You'd have to go by your observations of the table, if players are roughly of the same ability you are going to get into a big/hand v loads of outs coin toss sooner or later, so why not sooner?

Raising preflop allows you to easily fold to a reraise. Much like holdem there are few situations where we should be limping first in in Omaha. As played you're certainly deep enough to call and play fit or fold on the flop.



Your hand is garbage especially to a UTG raise and a UTG+1 call (even at $5PL) and this is a standard fold.



Looks fine, checking the flop OOP here would be okay but in position and checked to I usually stab at it on the flop. Again, raise preflop.



The paired board veers me towards folding here. If the turn was the 2h then it's very close. We have some FE if we shove the turn and a ton of (likely) outs so that's certainly preferable to just calling.

Kewl, dissenting opinions, especially on the second hand.

In general I'm not raising preflop at these levels due to 1) a lack of confidence in my ability to know what is a good hand and 2) general no-foldem play at low levels. At this point I'm only raising hands with AA/KK and some support, but I do need to work on expanding that.


Hand 1 I called looking to hit something that beats AA and flopped a boat.

Hand 2 I folded thinking if I had some suited-ness it might be worthwhile.

Hand 3, is that a hand worth raising UTG preflop, or betting OOP at the flop? It seems decent preflop, but does it sit in the next-to-top ranking of PLO hands? And on the flop, I've got draws and TP but a flush draw isn't going anywhere if I bet.

Hand 4 I folded, but in retrospect I wonder if the turn bet was one afraid of the flush draw as much as anything else.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Honestly the middle pair hands (1 and 3) I just don't even limp with preflop from EP if the table has been preflop raising at all. Hand 2 is junk, IMO. Hand 4 I would have gotten aggressive on the flop and raised, but once the board paired on the turn it's a fold for me.
 
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