Collusion or Standard tactic?

T

TurnipHead

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So there I was in an MTT on one of the last of the two tables left. Our table was full of big stacks while the other was full of small stacks - who were, mainly, folding every hand.

At one stage, I thought we were gonna do the sensible thing and just fold to the BB, but there were obviously one or two who just didn't "get it".

Anyway, when we got to the final table, I explained to this guy that at a poker club recently, the table of large stacks just folded to the BB so that they were all guaranteed a final table place. (Why attack each other's stacks??) I explained that the "small stack table" (where I was at) just accepted this as a standard tactic and so just had to deal with it. **In some ways this is just like the unwritten agreement where two big stacks check it down to get someone out of a tourny or SnG**

I told the online guy that I couldn't really suggest doing it at the time (during our online MTT) because I didn't want to get accused of collusion. At this point some observers, as well as current players, started saying I should be careful about even using the "collusion" word in chat because online sites are highly sensitive about this.

My questions are:
1.) If I had mentioned doing this at the time, would I have been guilty of collusion?

2.) Would the site be within their rights to ban me / freeze my account as a result?

Any answers from anyone within the online poker industry would be appreciated.
Thanks.
 
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BKrywko1

BKrywko1

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1) Probably not, if they take the time to look at the whole chat. But it's not unreasonable for someone to think that you were colluding, either.

2) Sites can ban you for whatever reason, since they're a private enterprise. If anything, you'd probably get a warning from the site not to do it again.

In general, no offense, just STFU and worry about yourself when it comes to talking strategy/tactics with players during an online tournament. Not everyone feels the need to "fold to the BB" to insure that everyone at the table gets to the final table, and the other 2 stacks at your table just might "get it" better than you do, to be honest, when it comes to tournament play.
 
pokernut

pokernut

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You probably wouldn't have your account freezed for collusion in this case but these type of tactics don't really work and never will IMO. If I'm at the table of big stacks and I look down at AA or KK, i'm not folding it just to avoid confrontation with other big stacks at my table to get closer to the FT and I would expect anyone else to do the same. I am trying to accumulate an even bigger stack to put me in position to win the tourney, not just make the final table.

Plus your table isn't gauranteed to all make it anyway. Someone will build a stack at the other table by knocking people out.

What you are discussing is completely different from two people checking a hand down to knock a smaller stack out who is all in, and even that has a lot of gray area.
 
arkadiy

arkadiy

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And once a few people at the small table get knocked out, a big stack will move over there.
 
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T

TurnipHead

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OK, point taken. I take yer point about wanting to accumulate chips to WIN the thing rather than just to get to the money but perhaps I should have pointed out that there were only 11 players left at this point; 5 on ours and 6 on t'other. (The Top 8 were to get paid.)

But, yes, wanting to play poker and WIN the thing is a more noble thing to do and more in the spirit of the game than limping into the money.

P.S. - LOL at your sig BK. Made me chuckle.
 
titans4ever

titans4ever

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IF I was a table that never wanted to call a riase, I would raise every time no matter what. Do you realize how much free money you could make by increasing your stack size at this point. Nobody at your table full of big stacks wants to play so steal away.

I saw a pro who won 21 straight hands because nobody on his table wanted to bust out close to the bubble. He went from below average to 2nd in chips by the time they broke down a table and the tournament moved into the money. He said after about 10 hands he stopped looking at his cards and would continue until someone played back at him.
 
vanquish

vanquish

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IF I was a table that never wanted to call a riase, I would raise every time no matter what. Do you realize how much free money you could make by increasing your stack size at this point. Nobody at your table full of big stacks wants to play so steal away.

I saw a pro who won 21 straight hands because nobody on his table wanted to bust out close to the bubble. He went from below average to 2nd in chips by the time they broke down a table and the tournament moved into the money. He said after about 10 hands he stopped looking at his cards and would continue until someone played back at him.

Prisoner's dillemma.....
 
riffpoker

riffpoker

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hell, I don't even like chopping.....go for the jugular or don't go at all.
 
reglardave

reglardave

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You see this kinda thing alla time in the PS MTTs; people expecting you to fold to 'em so they can limp into the money and win a buck and a half. I don't go for it; I don't think many people do. Play your game, win on your own merits, not everyone else's charity. Where's the pride in that?
 
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