Bet sizing: Getting worse hands to call vs Getting betterhands to fold

ObbleeXY

ObbleeXY

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I'm trying to analyse my opponents betting a bit more.

Do you think it is obvious when your villains are betting with the intention of getting worse hands to call vs betting to get better hands to fold?
You would think it should be obvious...but I'm finding in the low stakes games I play, it often isn't.

What are the characteristics (other than small vs big bets) that distinguishes the purpose of your opponents' betting?

What are some common rules for getting the sizing right when I'm betting?
 
jordanbillie

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If you are speaking about tournaments I find a 1/3 pot size c-bet to work the best. As far as bet sizing tells coming from other opponents, you really have to pay attention to the specific players. Sometimes a quick 1/2 pot bet on the river can be a tell that it's a bluff (as the player just quickly clicked 1/2 pot and bet) but this isn't true for all players. Sometimes the bet itself isn't enough to know (for example a 1/4 pot bet on the flop seems much more weak if it's followed by a check on the turn), and you need to piece together the entire line of bets/checks to get a better picture of the villains range.

To over generalize, the random 3/4 pot bet on the river is usually strength. ;) That's about all I got. :)

I guess my point is to pay attention to which players unknowingly cling to the predetermined bet sizes like 1/4 1/3 1/2 or 3/4. I always try to bet odd amounts using the slider for this exact reason. :)
 
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Wish there was an easy answer to your question.
The bet sizing should be determined by range advantage/disadvantage, board texture and player type.
The objective listed above is the goal, but we don't want to reveal our hand strength.
 
Gallarado777

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If your opponent bets and bets then I think he has something strong, you can see it on the streets that give you information
 
Luvepoker

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I'm trying to analyse my opponents betting a bit more.

Do you think it is obvious when your villains are betting with the intention of getting worse hands to call vs betting to get better hands to fold?
You would think it should be obvious...but I'm finding in the low stakes games I play, it often isn't.

What are the characteristics (other than small vs big bets) that distinguishes the purpose of your opponents' betting?

What are some common rules for getting the sizing right when I'm betting?

What you trying to do is really smart and wise. Its also never going to be easy or accurate. Its very player dependent and really smart players will play in a way that you really can never tell what they are doing.

Is it obvious? Yes and no. Some players its so easy to get a read on but there are some you really never can get a true read on. Some players will make there move and I take there chips when I want them and fold when I am beat but those are rare. Your goal is to be better getting them right than wrong.

Characteristics is not black and white either. While some are clearly telling you what other you will never really know.

Commons rule for your betting. There are people who will say GTO and other who sat anything but GTO. I have heard just bet 1/2 pot. 1/2 and pot is another as is 1/3 and 2/3 pot betting. I would not suggest going to crazy on it. I would just pick whats comfortable for you.

I would love to be more helpful but this is one that just not easy to figure out or explain. I will give this one piece of advice from what I have learned and based on myself. Good solid players are hard to ever understand. Why? You can watch a good player for 2 hours and never play a hand against them. You see hand they show and thing you may have them understood a bit. Then you play them and go with what you have seen and get beat badly. why? When you got your reads on them they were playing different players and types. They will play differently vs each player and did vs you and that is what hurt you. They played vs what they think of you and the players you did get the info from were different from you.

Good luck on this. Its fun, iteresting and frustrating as heck.
 
SpanRmonka

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I have had some good success 3 betting or check raising players who C bet fairly small. I reckon this is generally weakness in the low stakes.

I'm not talking the nonsense min bet here, but maybe the 25% or less, especially when you get deeper into the tourney. Here especially it screams, I should C bet this flop, but I have nothing so I'll pop out a weak one.

Of course like a lot of moves in poker it can go badly wrong if the 'read' is wrong!!

These bets are I believe accomplishing neither of your options, they are not strong enough to make better hands fold, but also they are not often trying to get value, as it should/would be bigger!
 
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christovam

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Pre-flop always give tribet with big hands.
If the post-flop comes favorable, with a dry edge, bet little, a third of the pot. It usually tends to be profitable with weak bad guys, because they will call almost anything.
 
Andyreas

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I think it's a tricky question. In case you differentiate your bet sizing depending on bluffing/value betting, then it's probably easy for your opponents to exploit you.

I try to have standard bet sizings of around 1/3 of pot. I tend to go a little higher when the board is wet and I don't want to give my opponents profitable calls with their draws.

As for the opponents, it's definitely hard to make a read in the micros. Some always bet 1/2 pot as bluff or value bet. Some go a little smaller as c-bet/bluff and bet higher or super big with the nuts.

I sometimes make a note when a player bets full pot / jams on river, so I do not fire too much without the nuts on flop/turn.
 
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fundiver199

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As others have said, good players tend to standardize their bet sizes, so they dont give away tells. But bad players dont always, and in my opinion there are some general population tells, which are fairly reliable:

* A small donk lead on the flop or turn is usually a weak hand testing the waters or trying to freeze action. However if you raise, and the player now put in a 3-bet, its basically a fancy way of check-raising, which bad players like to use with nut hands.

* Betting full pot on the flop is usually someone acting tough, when in reality they are just scared and want you to fold. Blackrain79 compare it to a small dog barking.

* In contrast to this fish love to bet full pot on the river, when they are strong.

* A small river bet is just, what it looks like, weak. Sometimes this can be a good spot to raise as a bluff, especially if a good scare card came.

* A min 3-bet followed by a very small 5-bet, when the player could easily have jammed, is almost always AA.
 
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