Balanced vs GTO play

arenaci

arenaci

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I came across these two concepts many times. Please help me understand what is the difference between balanced play and game theory optimal play?
 
Nafor

Nafor

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Playing with balanced ranges makes you less exploitable when you are against players who keep their eyes open but it doesn't work against fishes.
Using balanced ranges simply means that you have a good selection of hands (including bluffs) that you are willing to play most of the time in the same manner (e.g. doing continuation bets on a flop). But if you are playing only strong hands in a certain way and weaker ones in another way, then your range is not balanced.

GTO is another way to play which also works well only against good players. It is in theory the unexploitable way to play but if the opponent is not advanced enough you're going fail. If you're thinking - Hmmm my opponent has probably XX type of hand. If I bet x amount chips on this board I'm denying him the equity to make the call... But if your opponent doesn't know heads or tails about equity your actions are not going to matter. So one could say that GTO is mathematically polished way of playing.

Exploitative play is often the most lucrative way to play in the micro stakes. It involves keeping your eyes open, spotting your opponents tendencies and using them against them (e.g. noticing that player A folds very often to a 3bet. If I raise x amount he will probably fold).
 
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crazycitizen

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I came across these two concepts many times. Please help me understand what is the difference between balanced play and game theory optimal play?
I believe the two concepts converge into the same thing.


GTO is considered (by some) to be perfectly balanced play. But that could mean in a particular spot you should fold 30%, call 60% and re-raise 10% of the time (for example). As mathematically that would be the most balanced play for that 1 situation.

However, 'balance' often refers more to betting sometimes for value and sometimes as a bluff, to give your opponent a harder decision.

Essentially both concepts are similar but;
GTO is more mathematical: and realistically being 100% GTO can only be achieved by a computer. Thus, to learn it you need some sort of GTO solving software.
'Balanced play' is more "don't only bet for value because your opponents will just fold every time"
 
arenaci

arenaci

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Playing with balanced ranges makes you less exploitable when you are against players who keep their eyes open but it doesn't work against fishes.
Using balanced ranges simply means that you have a good selection of hands (including bluffs) that you are willing to play most of the time in the same manner (e.g. doing continuation bets on a flop). But if you are playing only strong hands in a certain way and weaker ones in another way, then your range is not balanced.

GTO is another way to play which also works well only against good players. It is in theory the unexploitable way to play but if the opponent is not advanced enough you're going fail. If you're thinking - Hmmm my opponent has probably XX type of hand. If I bet x amount chips on this board I'm denying him the equity to make the call... But if your opponent doesn't know heads or tails about equity your actions are not going to matter. So one could say that GTO is mathematically polished way of playing.

Exploitative play is often the most lucrative way to play in the micro stakes. It involves keeping your eyes open, spotting your opponents tendencies and using them against them (e.g. noticing that player A folds very often to a 3bet. If I raise x amount he will probably fold).


Good explanation. Thanks. But what is the difference between balanced play and GTO play? Can we say that GTO play is always balanced, but balanced play is not always GTO?
 
Nafor

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Can we say that GTO play is always balanced, but balanced play is not always GTO?

That is actually a quite good definition of the two :rock: People don't usually compare balanced vs GTO.

A good player never uses only one strategy. Your game may differ between every opponent on the table, or when you are moved from one table to another so there's no need to worry too much about these. Learn one thing at a time and use them wisely.
 
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UkoChebuko

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It is the same thing, mate. However the balance is not always "perfect". Can be "value heavy" or "bluff heavy". For example if you use pot bet OTR with 24 combos for value and 12 combos "pure" bluff, then no matter what will do the V. But still you both are losing from the rake. If the V "maybe" like to fold (you are not sure), you can use more combos for bluff. If he "maybe" like to call (you are not sure), then more combos for value.

But "the balanced play" AKA GTO can be exploited very easy, don't believe in everything that you hear. And you will "hear" this (you can't beat GTO) very often.

GTO is just "the perfect balance". In every spot. You can't exploit this type of play with any two cards. But that is actually the problem. If you bet only for value, or mainly for value, GTO sucks.
 
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1nsomn1a

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GTO game is the optimal correct game for every game situation.
A balanced game doesn't mean a proper game, it's just hard to read.:)
 
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UkoChebuko

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GTO game is the optimal correct game for every game situation.
From which point of view you say that? If you use some solver and "ask" him which is the correct play, he will give you the "correct" answer. But in theory the correct answer. This is a simple calculator, nothing special, just a tool. The correct, the "best play" vs his range. But the calculator knows nothing about the people, only about the range. And you "told him" about this range.
It is not simple, mate. "I will play like bot, the GTO, "the best play", no one will exploit me and I will beat every limit". Not even close to that :D. In reality...

An "optimal" is not "equal" to "correct". If "correct" is equal to "the most profitable". Don't use that word , mate. Please..For the f*cking GTO. It's hurts :D.
 
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