Ah Kh or Ad 4d what to do

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martinf1971

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Ah Kh Flop comes Jh Th 5c someone shoves all in are you calling or folding

Ad 4d flop comes 7d 9d 4c someone shoves all in what are you doing calling or folding
 
Edu1

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even without information about stack size, position...
I think in this two situations is a easy call, nobody will fold a royal flush draw, A4d nut flush draw is also hard to fold
 
najisami

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In both cases, it depends on his and your stack size and the stage of the tournament. Both very hard to fold, but in certain situations, folding could be the right thing to do.
 
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eetenor

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Ah Kh Flop comes Jh Th 5c someone shoves all in are you calling or folding

Ad 4d flop comes 7d 9d 4c someone shoves all in what are you doing calling or folding


Thank you for posting

This is a great exercise for you to use the free program Equilab to understand your hand versus a players full range for these spots.

You can also use the Cardschat calculator and input individual hands to understand range analysis.

From the Cardschat calculator:

Hand 1 AHKH vs top set JJ= 33.84% equity

Hand 2 AD4D vs top set 99= 28.59% equity

The interesting thing about these 2 examples is if our V is shoving all over pairs to the board in each case- the A4 hand has more equity versus more over pairs therefore vs range may be the better call of the two in a "in the moment decision".

Hand 2 also has more equity vs more flush draw shoves as the V can have Kxd Jxd Qxd Txd 86d etc.

Equilab is great for discovering the equity versus a full range.

Hope this helps

:):)
 
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martinf1971

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The problem I am having in tournaments is I get into spots like these and it is very hard to fold. Sometimes you may hit your flush or straight and win a big pot but I find most of the time you miss your cards and end up being dumped out of the tournament. I guess the villan knows that even with 2 cards left to go even with top pair he is 2/1 favourite if you are drawing and his bet is to protect the pot hoping you fold. Or on the other hand hes hoping you call and miss knowing that he will win the hand 66% of the time.
 
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fundiver199

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Sometimes you may hit your flush or straight and win a big pot but I find most of the time you miss your cards and end up being dumped out of the tournament.

You dont lose "most" of the time, since both these hands have loads of equity, unless you are against specifically a set. And othen people wont just move all in on the flop with a set, since they want action. As someone else said already, this is what, an equity calculator like Equilab is for.

Starting with the AK hand we can give the opponent a realistic worst case range consisting of JJ, TT, 55 (sets), JT (top two pair) and QJ-AJ (top pair good kicker). Against that range you already have 52% equity, so you are even a small favourite to win the hand. And realistically most people will also have at least some draws. To make it simple lets just say, he can have KQ, which flopped en OESD. Add that in, and now you have 58% equity.

Sure you still bust 42% of the time, and this sucks. But its really no different than having QQ against AK, and then all the chips go in preflop. The whole idea of tournaments is to bust everyone, until only the winner is left, and "flipping" for your tournament life is simply part of the game.
 
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CSLysander

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At the end of the day, you have to do some gambling. There is a need to understand the player who shoved. The cards have a lot of chances to make much better hands and possibly the chance to knock someone out with loads of equity. Go for it if you are feeling everything is going right.
 
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Mahdi

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There is so many factors, that can influence your decision here, but mostly keep in mind that those hands have a lot of equity, but basically they are draws, so check-raise is good on them, but going all-in, especially deep seems stupid
 
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martinf1971

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I have found that dumping people out is great. But when its a coin flip even if I outstack the Villan 2-1 its not a great way to play a tournament. Last night playing the CC Freeroll I played small pots only played about 1 in 7 hands built a nice little chipstack then suddenly in CO I get dealt JJ , UTG +1 raises so I reraise to 14BB the UTG shoves with A Q off then rivers a Q , left me with 3BB slowly built my stack back up got to 18BB I get dealt AQ off in UTG +3 , UTG +1 raises 3BB so I shove with JJ I call get a K T 3 on flop couldnt hit a A Q or J.
In both cases If i had just called the raise then made a big raise after the flop I will have got 2 folds I believe and not lost my chipstack. Tournaments arent about knocking other people out its about not losing your chips. Slow and steady wins races. Setting of like a whippet and you will be out sooner than you know it. Once you have gone all in theres no turning back if you lose you lose. Another case in the tournament was i got dealt pocket 5s in SB utg+1 raises to 10BB i i outstacked villan 2.5-1 so i called to see a flop hoping for a set flop came Kc 7s 3d I check and UTG+1 shoves in my head i had him on Ax. I was right I called he had Ad 9h lucky sod hit a A on the river. here I should have led out after the flop he would have folded to save his tournament life and my stack wouldnt have got halfed.
When you sit down and analyse you play what could you have done different that could have made the outcome different this is when your game improves. I have been tweaking my game looking for what i can do different to increase my tournament effiency. I believe i am moving forward slowly but i am getting there hopefully I can improve some more and start entering high priced tournaments and win one one day. Pay for a nice holiday :) :)
 
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martinf1971

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Had a few says break from poker sometimes I think you have to take a break just to help you adjust to the ever changing Face of poker
 
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Zirkzee

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In the first scenario you have 12 clear outs. 9 hearts and 3 queens. You also have two overcards. They probably won't help you because if your opponent goes all in after the flop, he must have flopped a set or something like 98h or he has AJ and you have reverse odds. Admittedly, you are a 66:34 outsider in one of your opponent's sets. But if your opponent has 98h you are 78% the favorite. In addition, he could only have AJo and want to protect his hand on a draw-heavy flop. Here the chances are almost 50:50. If you look at your opponent's hand range, you have a win rate of around 50%. Maybe folding would be a better decision, but I definitely wouldn't be able to fold it. In the second scenario, I could rather fold. You don't have a monster draw but your cards could still get the nuts. You cannot give yourself more than 9 clear outs, however, as another 4 or an ace will not necessarily be enough. Your opponent could have a set or A9. But i don't want to fold in this situation too. But in this scenario it would actually be better to fold ..
 
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martinf1971

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This is the problem we all run into in poker. It is so hard to fold but I have folded these hands in a lot of situations because im playing catchup and even though you have decent equity you dont catch up enough times to make the call.
 
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