Advice for new online micro player

[Conorsr]

Hi so I recently started playing online poker and have tried to adopt as much strategy as possible by reading forums etc, understanding position, hand ranges, SPR, pot odds, equity (raw and realised), cbetting, 3betting bankroll etc and feel as though I have a decent general understanding of how to play.

However I seem to be continually loosing and am open to the fact that I most likely have many leaks in my game and a need for a lot of improvement.

When playing micro stakes whether it’s 5/10/25NL, I find that over an average of 50 hands I will fold 35 and with the 15 I play, 7 of them will not see the flop because everyone folds to a 3BB raise so I win like 15c, 5 of them will miss the flop or get mid/bottom pair which I fold to a raise or occasionally cbet if I was the PFR then fold if my hand doesn’t improve on the turn/river and the other 2 hands I will win by hitting the flop and betting for value or cold calling to induce a bluff if I have the nuts/ making a flush draw etc.

Anyone got any advice for me I’m trying to understand why I’m continually loosing even though I’m applying a lot of proper strategy.

Sometimes I do make mistakes due to tilt or loose to bad beats and making possibly silly decisions like calling a shove with AKo or AQs or double/triple barreling IP in an attempt to steal the pot or value bet with TPMK

but a lot of it seems to be micro players who will shove all in with A5o or KJo when I have pocket kings and aces or call through to the river with 73o and hit a set on the turn and river even though I have Top two pair.

This is a rough example of a 10NL session over 3 hours:
Start at $10 fold a few orbits and loose $1 roughly to blinds then open raise a few appropriate hands which all get folded and I win 15c off each hand so back to $10

Open raise a few hands/ call a few open raises and miss the flop and fold to a raise or I cbet a couple IP to steal the pot/ get value if I have draw cards and then miss on turn/river
So down to roughly $7

Fold another couple orbits then open raise and hit on the flop, bet for value and everyone folds , winning roughly $1 each time to back up to $10

3bet a decent hand get a call, then check call to induce bluff or raise for value through to the river and win a couple of pots with house, straight, flush etc when opponent has top pair or two pair etc

Up to $13

I will go sit between roughly $7-15 for the 3 hours then gradually go down possibly because I loosen up my range, cbet semi bluff to much, fold when I know I’m beat, then I will loose big to a bad beat or someone UTG shoving to my 3bet when they have A50 and I have KK and they make a set of 5s

I know I make some mistakes but I think overall they can’t explain what’s going on because I am disciplined, I fold when I don’t have the right odds 80% of the time I play the right hands for each position etc I’m thinking there’s some fundamental flaws happening or is it just variance?? I’m very confused and it’s disheartening



Any advice would be great thank You

 

[bellicoso]

Well you've got a lot of information here... I think maybe you lose because you're playing like everyone expects and it's predictable. So it's easy to know when you've got a hand (your 3BB 3-bet) and when you don't.

Do you loosen up on occasion and go to showdown so people can see you win with something like T9s? How aggressive are you with small and medium pairs?

In short, if you play like a typical player, you're going to be easy to read and exploit. I would spend more time learning how to properly loosen your game and couple it with some aggression so you're harder to get a read on. Also, take notes on players who are winning more than you. What are they doing differently? Emulate whatever that is in your game.

Anyway, good post. I hope you see some success in the future. Good luck!

 

[Conorsr]

Well you've got a lot of information here... I think maybe you lose because you're playing like everyone expects and it's predictable. So it's easy to know when you've got a hand (your 3BB 3-bet) and when you don't.

Do you loosen up on occasion and go to showdown so people can see you win with something like T9s? How aggressive are you with small and medium pairs?

In short, if you play like a typical player, you're going to be easy to read and exploit. I would spend more time learning how to properly loosen your game and couple it with some aggression so you're harder to get a read on. Also, take notes on players who are winning more than you. What are they doing differently? Emulate whatever that is in your game.

Anyway, good post. I hope you see some success in the future. Good luck!

I do loosen up when IP and play hands like T9s QJo and small PP but I’m not very aggressive with middle pairs or TPWK if someone raises or continues to call I usually check-fold to a raise at river.
I also try to keep same open raise amount regardless of what hand or position so I’ll open UTG 3xBB with AQs but I’ll also open BTN 3xBB with pocket 6s or T9s etc so that opponents don’t know what I have.

Thank you for the advice i agree that I need to be more aggressive IP with middle pairs and slightly weaker hands and see more showdowns and find ways to be more unpredictable, because I’m in AUS I play ignition and it’s all anonymous so hard to keep track of player stats etc but instead I’ll watch videos etc and take notes on the professionals!
Thanks again

 

[bellicoso]

I do loosen up when IP and play hands like T9s QJo and small PP but I’m not very aggressive with middle pairs or TPWK if someone raises or continues to call I usually check-fold to a raise at river.
I also try to keep same open raise amount regardless of what hand or position so I’ll open UTG 3xBB with AQs but I’ll also open BTN 3xBB with pocket 6s or T9s etc so that opponents don’t know what I have.

Thank you for the advice i agree that I need to be more aggressive IP with middle pairs and slightly weaker hands and see more showdowns and find ways to be more unpredictable, because I’m in AUS I play ignition and it’s all anonymous so hard to keep track of player stats etc but instead I’ll watch videos etc and take notes on the professionals!
Thanks again

Yeah, it's harder to get consistent notes on Ignition for sure. But you can try logging your hands (I literally write down what happens with each street in a notebook), and find out why the opponent was successful, or what you did that made you successful. Even without names in place for the players, you can start to get a good hand-for-hand analysis from your logs over time. Obviously, only log the hands you play (see a flop) to keep it clean and concise.

In my opinion, the best approach to poker is controlled-chaos (I'm still working to master this strategy, however). You want to appear to be on the maniacal side, all the while executing a plan. Once you feel you've captured the right table image, you can win more easily. Your opponents will have a harder time putting you on a hand. You'll have a good grasp of their ranges, and you'll be able to use all of this to your advantage.

Again, best of luck to you!

 

[Poker Orifice]

Post some hands for analysis in the Cash Game section

 

[Conorsr]

Yeah, it's harder to get consistent notes on Ignition for sure. But you can try logging your hands (I literally write down what happens with each street in a notebook), and find out why the opponent was successful, or what you did that made you successful. Even without names in place for the players, you can start to get a good hand-for-hand analysis from your logs over time. Obviously, only log the hands you play (see a flop) to keep it clean and concise.

In my opinion, the best approach to poker is controlled-chaos (I'm still working to master this strategy, however). You want to appear to be on the maniacal side, all the while executing a plan. Once you feel you've captured the right table image, you can win more easily. Your opponents will have a harder time putting you on a hand. You'll have a good grasp of their ranges, and you'll be able to use all of this to your advantage.

Again, best of luck to you!

That’s a great idea to write down and take notes I can get the hand histories off ignition and then analyse them later on so that should definitely help out, someone else suggested to post some hands in the forum and have them analysed which I will also do!
I agree, that’s the approach I am trying to learn and work towards mastering, thanks again I appreciate it

 

[Conorsr]

Post some hands for analysis in the Cash Game section

Ok sweet definitely will

 

[Danjwarburton]

No need to write them down, just screen record in OBS and also verbally say what you are thinking into a microphone as you are playing.

 

[JBGoode]

Hi so I recently started playing online poker and have tried to adopt as much strategy as possible by reading forums etc, understanding position, hand ranges, SPR, pot odds, equity (raw and realised), cbetting, 3betting bankroll etc and feel as though I have a decent general understanding of how to play.

However I seem to be continually loosing and am open to the fact that I most likely have many leaks in my game and a need for a lot of improvement.

When playing micro stakes whether it’s 5/10/25NL, I find that over an average of 50 hands I will fold 35 and with the 15 I play, 7 of them will not see the flop because everyone folds to a 3BB raise so I win like 15c, 5 of them will miss the flop or get mid/bottom pair which I fold to a raise or occasionally cbet if I was the PFR then fold if my hand doesn’t improve on the turn/river and the other 2 hands I will win by hitting the flop and betting for value or cold calling to induce a bluff if I have the nuts/ making a flush draw etc.

Anyone got any advice for me I’m trying to understand why I’m continually loosing even though I’m applying a lot of proper strategy.

Sometimes I do make mistakes due to tilt or loose to bad beats and making possibly silly decisions like calling a shove with AKo or AQs or double/triple barreling IP in an attempt to steal the pot or value bet with TPMK

but a lot of it seems to be micro players who will shove all in with A5o or KJo when I have pocket kings and aces or call through to the river with 73o and hit a set on the turn and river even though I have Top two pair.

This is a rough example of a 10NL session over 3 hours:
Start at $10 fold a few orbits and loose $1 roughly to blinds then open raise a few appropriate hands which all get folded and I win 15c off each hand so back to $10

Open raise a few hands/ call a few open raises and miss the flop and fold to a raise or I cbet a couple IP to steal the pot/ get value if I have draw cards and then miss on turn/river
So down to roughly $7

Fold another couple orbits then open raise and hit on the flop, bet for value and everyone folds , winning roughly $1 each time to back up to $10

3bet a decent hand get a call, then check call to induce bluff or raise for value through to the river and win a couple of pots with house, straight, flush etc when opponent has top pair or two pair etc

Up to $13

I will go sit between roughly $7-15 for the 3 hours then gradually go down possibly because I loosen up my range, cbet semi bluff to much, fold when I know I’m beat, then I will loose big to a bad beat or someone UTG shoving to my 3bet when they have A50 and I have KK and they make a set of 5s

I know I make some mistakes but I think overall they can’t explain what’s going on because I am disciplined, I fold when I don’t have the right odds 80% of the time I play the right hands for each position etc I’m thinking there’s some fundamental flaws happening or is it just variance?? I’m very confused and it’s disheartening



Any advice would be great thank You

After reading your post, I have a few questions....

Where are you getting your info from? How old is it? Who is it coming from? Cause a lot of the stuff you find online for free is very outdated alot of the time. Having a general understanding of everything you listed is very important. So please dont get me wrong. How you use that infomation is consistently changing. So by the time you read something online for free, chances are the better of the playing field is already beating that spasific line or strat. Thus you are always 1 step behind.

Next I started to read about the "resualts" you posted.... didnt even get through the frist paragraph before I realized your biggest problem.... your playing Resualts Oriented. That is the biggest issue for all micro players. All new players do it, and even some losing exsperinced players do it. If you ask me this mindset of actually caring about the end resualt is what leads to gambling addiction. When you start to have a true understanding of the game. You will start to realize that beats are gonna happen. You can only control the actions to make. Those actions need to be made by....

1 the strength of your hand based off possition.... basic fundamentals right? Playing a range of hands your are confortable playing post flop.

2 an understanding of our opponent/s.... against a tighter passive player we can 3Bet wider, and bet for value, against a wider spwey player we can let them spew to us, while applying pressure as semi bluffs....

3 knowing where we are in the hand, knowing the diffrence between betting for value, and betting as a bluff. There is no such thing as a value bluff, but there is a semi bluff.... most of all recognizing when you are betting as a bluff. Knowing when only better is calling you, and worst is folding.... knowing this is truely the diffrence between being a winning player and a losing player....

How do you train yourself to know this? Well you have to be able to range your opponents. The better you can range your opponent the better you will be....

Also I would highly suggest finding a group of people that are better then you, get to know them. See how they study, join a study group. I actually run one if your interested in join up send me a message. I'd be happy to add you to our Skype weekly study group.

Also look into some paid coaching. PokerCoaching.com with Johnathan Little. Upswing.com are 2 soild ones. Also check out some of the twitch streamers. Find one you like, stick around, and talk in chat. That's probably your best way to really meet some friends and find coaching.

Hope that helps.

 

[Conorsr]

After reading your post, I have a few questions....

Where are you getting your info from? How old is it? Who is it coming from? Cause a lot of the stuff you find online for free is very outdated alot of the time. Having a general understanding of everything you listed is very important. So please dont get me wrong. How you use that infomation is consistently changing. So by the time you read something online for free, chances are the better of the playing field is already beating that spasific line or strat. Thus you are always 1 step behind.

Next I started to read about the "resualts" you posted.... didnt even get through the frist paragraph before I realized your biggest problem.... your playing Resualts Oriented. That is the biggest issue for all micro players. All new players do it, and even some losing exsperinced players do it. If you ask me this mindset of actually caring about the end resualt is what leads to gambling addiction. When you start to have a true understanding of the game. You will start to realize that beats are gonna happen. You can only control the actions to make. Those actions need to be made by....

1 the strength of your hand based off possition.... basic fundamentals right? Playing a range of hands your are confortable playing post flop.

2 an understanding of our opponent/s.... against a tighter passive player we can 3Bet wider, and bet for value, against a wider spwey player we can let them spew to us, while applying pressure as semi bluffs....

3 knowing where we are in the hand, knowing the diffrence between betting for value, and betting as a bluff. There is no such thing as a value bluff, but there is a semi bluff.... most of all recognizing when you are betting as a bluff. Knowing when only better is calling you, and worst is folding.... knowing this is truely the diffrence between being a winning player and a losing player....

How do you train yourself to know this? Well you have to be able to range your opponents. The better you can range your opponent the better you will be....

Also I would highly suggest finding a group of people that are better then you, get to know them. See how they study, join a study group. I actually run one if your interested in join up send me a message. I'd be happy to add you to our Skype weekly study group.

Also look into some paid coaching. PokerCoaching.com with Johnathan Little. Upswing.com are 2 soild ones. Also check out some of the twitch streamers. Find one you like, stick around, and talk in chat. That's probably your best way to really meet some friends and find coaching.

Hope that helps.

Hi thanks for the detailed response there’s a lot of great advice in there!
I get my knowledge from a range of sources such as this forum, YouTube videos by the poker bank, Doug Polk, blackrain and watching a lot of professionals play etc.

I agree that free info can have its downsides in terms of being outdated and unorganised so I always take it with a grain of salt but the basics are always the same so I am always learning about the fundamentals as much as I can.

I will definitely look into professional training such as upswing etc and in response to your point about result oriented, your completely right even in the last few days I have changed the way I think about the game overall and instead of chasing results and getting ever more anxious to get success, I just concentrate on playing each hand the best way I can and looking more long term not short term.

And yes a study group with people who have much more experience would be a great idea I’d be happy to join in and get some advice so definitely send through those details i appreciate that

Thanks again for taking the time to give me your advice

 

[gravac]

I would give you my short review on starting with micro. Don't over use your bankroll, play steady, wait good cards, make good bluff, analyse situation when to put your chips in the middle, make players on table know you are there, judge and do assessment on players, play tourneys with low number of players.
Most important according to me if your bankroll is 100$ never play more then 1$ buy in. You might win once but that will push you in greedy state of mind and could be end in disaster, as in more valuable games players came more prepared and knowledgeable of poker.

 

[Matt_Burns88]

As a new player, I read once that you should approach your first deposit like a first date. If you're a Maccy D's and cinema kind of person, you should deposit $50. If you're no expenses spared kind of guy, you might deposit $1,000. The point is if the date doesn't amount to anything serious, you're not going to miss the money too much.

You should consider this first deposit as an invested in your poker education. You don't expect to keep it, but you hope that it will earn you money in the future. Don't get too hung up on losing that money, but take the time to honestly appraise your play, others play and read up on the game and strategy.

Something that new players and micro stakes players focus on is the result. This is a mistake. Losing a hand, a buy-in or even a whole deposit happens from time to time. The question you need to ask your self is did you play well? If you did, then you can honestly put it down to variance and be happy in the knowledge that if you did the same things all over again you would make money in the long run.

 

[fundiver199]

1) You say, you are playing 5NL, 10NL and 25NL. 25NL is not even considered micro stakes by most poker sites, and its a limit, where you already start to see full time professional players with millions of hands under their belt. This is particularly the case, if you play on a site, which accept players from countries with low costs of living like Eastern Europe or South America.

2) Most people expect fast results in poker as in many other aspects of life. But unless you are playing in really soft games like 2NL, where you can have a dubble digit winrate like 11BB/100, then it is normal even for winning players to have streaks as long as 100.000 hands, where they do not win. Maybe they dont lose, but they dont win either.

3) Why not share some hand histories in the cash game forum and get feedback from other forum members.