psy0nyd3
Visionary
Silver Level
no13ody
Rising Star
Bronze Level
I slow played KK recently and it worked out but did the same on an AA today and got drawn out on.
I've learned this lesson many times. Slow playing premium hands bites me in the rear more often than playing them aggressively.
wrzlbrnft
Legend
Platinum Level
Do not limp these hands, Show the table that you are strong. Even when everyone is folding to you. Thats better than running in a big pot in a flush or straight of your opponents
I played to often slowly and also learned my lesson...
GL
I played to often slowly and also learned my lesson...
GL
S
Sagory
Enthusiast
Silver Level
What reaction do you expect when doing so? Same reaction as when shove with AA UTG?
For me that's more gambling than plaing poker.
Phoenix Wright
Legend
Loyaler
Limping with premium hands can be a trappy play with great results against the right kind of player (like one who over-attempts to "exploit" your limps as passive and do the betting for you as you trap them). With that being said, open-raising should almost always be the default move; it is a strong hand and you want to build a pot right away as well as forcing players acting after you to continue for a cheap price. Even with a premium hand like AA, we probably don't want the action to go limp-limp-limp all the way around the table (action goes like this far too often in freerolls and micros and especially in micro homegames). In that case, even if our AA is favored, our equity is substantially lower than we would like with so many in the pot - the chance SOMEONE will outdraw us is dangerously high.
We must remember that AA or KK are amazing hands preflop, but at the end of the day, it is only one pair. Chances are someone will end up with better by the River if we don't generate some folds by raising and building the pot.
Open limping (trapping) UTG, or early position, is even worse! Now we are probably out of position AND many players may continue. Even our AA or KK could be in serious trouble. This is why open-raising will probably be the default move there in just about every case, but of course, there are perhaps rare exceptions where trapping might make sense, but it is risky and it is usually better to just raise/re-raise for value with a premium holding.
We must remember that AA or KK are amazing hands preflop, but at the end of the day, it is only one pair. Chances are someone will end up with better by the River if we don't generate some folds by raising and building the pot.
Open limping (trapping) UTG, or early position, is even worse! Now we are probably out of position AND many players may continue. Even our AA or KK could be in serious trouble. This is why open-raising will probably be the default move there in just about every case, but of course, there are perhaps rare exceptions where trapping might make sense, but it is risky and it is usually better to just raise/re-raise for value with a premium holding.
H
Hermus
Rock Star
Bronze Level
While I also advocate playing premium hands aggressively pre-flop, if you really want to get tricky pre-flop only do it with AA and only do it after getting 3-bet (i.e. always open raise and maybe flat a 3-bet with AA). There's a couple of reasons why this play is generally fine with AA, better than open limping AA, and very bad with KK.
So the reason that you're even asking this question is that you want to disguise the strength of your hand. Like the comments above pointed out, even AA gets busted once in a while, making it worthwhile to raise aggressively. The reason we can flat 3-bets with AA is that there are fewer drawing hands in our opponents' 3-betting range and more Ax and premium pocket pairs (which we dominate). Flatting the 3-bet serves the same purpose as open limping, disguising hand strength while achieving the main goal of letting our opponents fold the combo's that are most likely to bust our aces.
I'm not directly advocating making this play all the time. With no read, or against a thinking player you're better of getting it in pre. It's a good play to whip out against people that over-bluff post-flop, go to showdown too frequently, or overfold against a 4-bet though.
The reason we don't want to make the same play with KK is that our opponent is going to show up with a lot of Ax combo's. When the flop comes ace high, villain can bet 100% of their range and we have to let the best hand go a good chunk of the time. For that reason, just get it in pre with KK.
So the reason that you're even asking this question is that you want to disguise the strength of your hand. Like the comments above pointed out, even AA gets busted once in a while, making it worthwhile to raise aggressively. The reason we can flat 3-bets with AA is that there are fewer drawing hands in our opponents' 3-betting range and more Ax and premium pocket pairs (which we dominate). Flatting the 3-bet serves the same purpose as open limping, disguising hand strength while achieving the main goal of letting our opponents fold the combo's that are most likely to bust our aces.
I'm not directly advocating making this play all the time. With no read, or against a thinking player you're better of getting it in pre. It's a good play to whip out against people that over-bluff post-flop, go to showdown too frequently, or overfold against a 4-bet though.
The reason we don't want to make the same play with KK is that our opponent is going to show up with a lot of Ax combo's. When the flop comes ace high, villain can bet 100% of their range and we have to let the best hand go a good chunk of the time. For that reason, just get it in pre with KK.
mateuszjason
Rock Star
Bronze Level
I knew from my expierence that lipming AA or KK in early, middle, last stage of mtt tournaments is not good.
Better is open normally 2,5x every hand ;p if is premium or if is some fishy hands, Your opponents not know what You playing.
i like to slow playing AA or KK at final table
Better is open normally 2,5x every hand ;p if is premium or if is some fishy hands, Your opponents not know what You playing.
i like to slow playing AA or KK at final table
Evan Jarvis
Legend
Platinum Level
I don't see anything wrong with limping aces in the right situations/table dynamics.
Sure most of the time I'm raising, but I wouldn't go so far as to say "NEVER" do this or that.
Limping aces can make you a lot of extra money especially in straddle pots, or in games where people aren't paying attention and they may think you're just the big blind, or when they have a hand that would shove over a limp but not over a raise.
there are many situations where limping aces will yield a greater profit than raising. That being said they are the exception rather than the rule.
this has been my experience anyway, maybe it's not the same for everyone
antonis32123
Legend
Loyaler
I used to limp KK in ZOOM 9max , very good results with this strategy , also in some cash games or in tourneys , get some raises after you , then have the lsast word with big reraise . AA is a raise most of the times , if I limp and noone raises after me ,i am ready to fold on the flop , too dangerous to move on .
fletchdad
Jammin................
Loyaler
There have been a couple of very good answers already IMHO.
It depends. In certain games where limpers are punished, and punishers are 3 bet, a limp could be great. But if you limp, someone raises (punishes the limper) and someone one 3 bets (punishes the punisher) you can go all in, which is playing your cards face up. If this is what you want, ok.
By limp/reraising, you are saying you have the nutz. By limp/calling, you are allowing others to draw out on you. Vs 1 player, maybe, vs many, bad idea.
But so many things are relevant. Your image, your opponent's image, just as a start. If you have never been limping and limp/reraise, well, duh... You got the nutz. If you have an agro image, maybe you can use this to your advantage.. and so on.
It all, really........ depends....
It depends. In certain games where limpers are punished, and punishers are 3 bet, a limp could be great. But if you limp, someone raises (punishes the limper) and someone one 3 bets (punishes the punisher) you can go all in, which is playing your cards face up. If this is what you want, ok.
By limp/reraising, you are saying you have the nutz. By limp/calling, you are allowing others to draw out on you. Vs 1 player, maybe, vs many, bad idea.
But so many things are relevant. Your image, your opponent's image, just as a start. If you have never been limping and limp/reraise, well, duh... You got the nutz. If you have an agro image, maybe you can use this to your advantage.. and so on.
It all, really........ depends....
Plut41
Rock Star
Bronze Level
On a rare occasion I limp with a premium hand if there are players constantly squeezing at my table. But 95% it's an auto raise because you don't want 5 limpers that already had you crushed on the flop and a tiny pot you're trying to control.
