Is this a leak in my game?

[Brain Gainz]

Hey guys. I've been reflecting on my poker game recently, and something I realized I do way too much is check - check - check when I miss. Even worse, sometimes I'll c-bet the flop in position, get a call, get nervous, check - check down to showdown, and end up losing with Ace high to a pair of 3's or something. I didn't start thinking about this until I heard a poker vlogger on youtube say something like "I think my only way of winning this pot is if I can get my opponent to fold". It hit me that I seem to forget while playing poker that their are two ways to win a pot, winning at showdown or getting my opponent to fold. Looking back at some of the hands I've checked down with, it seems like if I had made a reasonable bet on the turn / river, I could have gotten my opponent to fold their bottom pair / weak draw.

So I pulled up Drivehud and managed to pull up some graphs of my winnings at showdown vs not at showdown. At showdown I've won $56 (I play very low stakes and haven't been playing for too long). Not at showdown I've lost $18. Is this normal? Or does this confirm my suspicion that I am relying too much on winning at showdown and not considering the second way I can win a pot?

Anyways, sorry for the ramble. I just thought it was interesting and is probably a hole in my game that I can try to improve. I think something I'll start experimenting with is making some bluffs with my ace-high type hands, especially if I get a sense that my opponent is weak. Hopefully y'all have some suggestions. Thanks!

 

[Poker_Mike]

Hey guys. I've been reflecting on my poker game recently, and something I realized I do way too much is check - check - check when I miss. Even worse, sometimes I'll c-bet the flop in position, get a call, get nervous, check - check down to showdown, and end up losing with Ace high to a pair of 3's or something. I didn't start thinking about this until I heard a poker vlogger on youtube say something like "I think my only way of winning this pot is if I can get my opponent to fold". It hit me that I seem to forget while playing poker that their are two ways to win a pot, winning at showdown or getting my opponent to fold. Looking back at some of the hands I've checked down with, it seems like if I had made a reasonable bet on the turn / river, I could have gotten my opponent to fold their bottom pair / weak draw.

So I pulled up Drivehud and managed to pull up some graphs of my winnings at showdown vs not at showdown. At showdown I've won $56 (I play very low stakes and haven't been playing for too long). Not at showdown I've lost $18. Is this normal? Or does this confirm my suspicion that I am relying too much on winning at showdown and not considering the second way I can win a pot?

Anyways, sorry for the ramble. I just thought it was interesting and is probably a hole in my game that I can try to improve. I think something I'll start experimenting with is making some bluffs with my ace-high type hands, especially if I get a sense that my opponent is weak. Hopefully y'all have some suggestions. Thanks!

If you are the original raiser in the hand preflop then you should often continue bet to take the pot down on the flop. Letting your opponent see all 5 community cards only increases the chance that they will make their hand against you - except for pairs against your ace - they're already ahead obviously.

If you raise preflop with AK and you have your opponent beat preflop the it is likely you have them beat on the flop. You may be "bluffing" with the best hand.

Good luck !

 

[fundiver199]

It is normal for winning players in the micros to have a declining red-line, as its called. This is because of the average player pool tendency, where people tend to call to much. Your red-line and blue-line are basically a reflection of your opponents, and if they cant fold anything, you are going to win more big pots at showdown but less small pots without showdown.

That being said it can certainly be a leak to have a very high flop C-bet but a low turn C-bet. So maybe you should be looking for more spots to fire that second barrel. It is just important, that you pick good spots, where your opponent will actually fold, and/or you have equity.

A fish might not fold that 33 to two or even three barrels, and then its going to get really expensive and also tilting for most people. Its always easy to get results oriented, when you see a hand, that might have folded, but you need to remember, that A high will sometimes win at showdown, especially against players, who call wide preflop and on the flop. And of course sometimes you will also improve.

 

[Fatman0912]

In poker it often happens that the one taking the action, also wins the hand. Of course this is not always the case, but it shows you that you need to take initiative. Don't wait for some good cards to magically appear. Take action and go for it and you will see, you will win more hands than you think.

 

[Nr98]

Hey guys. I've been reflecting on my poker game recently, and something I realized I do way too much is check - check - check when I miss. Even worse, sometimes I'll c-bet the flop in position, get a call, get nervous, check - check down to showdown, and end up losing with Ace high to a pair of 3's or something. I didn't start thinking about this until I heard a poker vlogger on youtube say something like "I think my only way of winning this pot is if I can get my opponent to fold". It hit me that I seem to forget while playing poker that their are two ways to win a pot, winning at showdown or getting my opponent to fold. Looking back at some of the hands I've checked down with, it seems like if I had made a reasonable bet on the turn / river, I could have gotten my opponent to fold their bottom pair / weak draw.

So I pulled up Drivehud and managed to pull up some graphs of my winnings at showdown vs not at showdown. At showdown I've won $56 (I play very low stakes and haven't been playing for too long). Not at showdown I've lost $18. Is this normal? Or does this confirm my suspicion that I am relying too much on winning at showdown and not considering the second way I can win a pot?

Anyways, sorry for the ramble. I just thought it was interesting and is probably a hole in my game that I can try to improve. I think something I'll start experimenting with is making some bluffs with my ace-high type hands, especially if I get a sense that my opponent is weak. Hopefully y'all have some suggestions. Thanks!

It's very hard to give general advice. But to make it as simple as possible for now, ask yourself these questions everytime you see a flop:

If you hit something:
Do I have a strong hand, and are there worse hands that can call my bet? -> Bet for value.
Did I hit my hand, but am I unlikely to get called by worse and only by better hands? -> Check and call their bet.

If you don't hit:
Do I have a direct draw or a hand with backdoor possibilities (runner runner)? -> Semi-bluff
Do I have total air? -> Check and give up

Revaluate on the next street.

Ofcourse this is overly simplistic and not properly balanced (sometimes you need to check draws as well and check strong hands, plus this doesn't take into account bets for protection or range advantage etc.). But for now I wouldn't worry about this. If you start asking these questions you will already find way better bluffs and also make sure you don't miss out on value.

Hope this helps a bit

 

[thetick33]

Hey guys. I've been reflecting on my poker game recently, and something I realized I do way too much is check - check - check when I miss. Even worse, sometimes I'll c-bet the flop in position, get a call, get nervous, check - check down to showdown, and end up losing with Ace high to a pair of 3's or something. I didn't start thinking about this until I heard a poker vlogger on youtube say something like "I think my only way of winning this pot is if I can get my opponent to fold". It hit me that I seem to forget while playing poker that their are two ways to win a pot, winning at showdown or getting my opponent to fold. Looking back at some of the hands I've checked down with, it seems like if I had made a reasonable bet on the turn / river, I could have gotten my opponent to fold their bottom pair / weak draw.

So I pulled up Drivehud and managed to pull up some graphs of my winnings at showdown vs not at showdown. At showdown I've won $56 (I play very low stakes and haven't been playing for too long). Not at showdown I've lost $18. Is this normal? Or does this confirm my suspicion that I am relying too much on winning at showdown and not considering the second way I can win a pot?

Anyways, sorry for the ramble. I just thought it was interesting and is probably a hole in my game that I can try to improve. I think something I'll start experimenting with is making some bluffs with my ace-high type hands, especially if I get a sense that my opponent is weak. Hopefully y'all have some suggestions. Thanks!

this is an easy answer yes a huge hole you are leaving IE chips or bank on the table eveytime you play if all you do is play like a rock


honestly look over some stuff here on how to improve your odds on certain types of hands....

if your goal is to play and trap then you are playing correctly in most ways but if you have an open ended and flush draw flop if your not betting? you are losing a whole LOT of take downs....

betting when an ace flops is another thing

betting when second pair hits turn etc...

here is the RULE its simple if you are NOT making the villian think you have holes in your game this is my number one poker rule..... your job is to make VILLAIN's uncomfortable and there is really only one way to make them think

you have to bet

 

[Brain Gainz]

Thanks for the responses! I'll take all of yalls suggestions into consideration and try to improve.

 

[Matt_Burns88]

Hey guys. I've been reflecting on my poker game recently, and something I realized I do way too much is check - check - check when I miss. Even worse, sometimes I'll c-bet the flop in position, get a call, get nervous, check - check down to showdown, and end up losing with Ace high to a pair of 3's or something. I didn't start thinking about this until I heard a poker vlogger on youtube say something like "I think my only way of winning this pot is if I can get my opponent to fold". It hit me that I seem to forget while playing poker that their are two ways to win a pot, winning at showdown or getting my opponent to fold. Looking back at some of the hands I've checked down with, it seems like if I had made a reasonable bet on the turn / river, I could have gotten my opponent to fold their bottom pair / weak draw.

So I pulled up Drivehud and managed to pull up some graphs of my winnings at showdown vs not at showdown. At showdown I've won $56 (I play very low stakes and haven't been playing for too long). Not at showdown I've lost $18. Is this normal? Or does this confirm my suspicion that I am relying too much on winning at showdown and not considering the second way I can win a pot?

Anyways, sorry for the ramble. I just thought it was interesting and is probably a hole in my game that I can try to improve. I think something I'll start experimenting with is making some bluffs with my ace-high type hands, especially if I get a sense that my opponent is weak. Hopefully y'all have some suggestions. Thanks!

You should give Evan Jarvis' YouTube video on aggression a watch. He goes into great depth on why you should be betting much more and the situations and frequency you should be raising. Betting for value as well as semi-bluffs and pure bluffs. It's certainly made me think about how aggressive I am and also think about my opponents ranges more as this plays a big part in when you should bet and how much.

 

[Phoenix Wright]

I agree that checking isn't a good play in many cases. Of course, there are times for it, but most of the time you want to be betting with something; even a missed flop could be bet if your hole cards have potential to improve worth the odds you are getting (direct as well as implied odds). However, be careful to not bet like a manic when you miss for the sake of it. Bet sizing is an art on its own and different sizes signal different things. Not saying you should continue betting with air all the time, but note that there are two ways to take the pot:
1) Having the best hand at showdown
or
2) by forcing everyone else out of the pot; for this one, your cards are not relevant. A royal flush or complete air bluff: you win the same pot because everyone else folded and you are not required to show your "winning" hand.