Hey all, I'm seeing some statistical patterns that I'm not sure what to make of. I've read quite a few books and I haven't seen these patterns mentioned anywhere. These are all from full ring games.

The first is what I'm guessing is a Tight Passive, something like 13/10/0.5. I see a lot of these and wonder why they're never talked about.

The second type, I don't know what the hell to make out of them. Something like a 17/1/3.0. Are they a loose/tight/loose? My brain hurts.

What are these people?

Final question...Is there a statistical pattern to identify a calling station? If so, what might it be?

Thank you for any help or advice.

first of all to answer your question we need to know if you talk about full ring, 6max or maybe heads-up. But 13/10/0.5 is mostly the nit. 0.5 is a 3bet?

17/1/3.0.is like a CS but still pretty weird statistics. No pfr at all, only 1, so he calls a lot, but 3bet 3.0 so he 3bets QQ+,AK. So no typical CS but close. He is on tight side.

about calling station: you need to look on vpip/pfr. If there is a big gap between vpip/pfr then he mostly calls a lot preflop, but don't raise a hand. For example 40/5. Also focus on stats like fold to cbet and correlation between call to cbet and raise to cbet. If he has low fold do cbet, high call to cbet and low raise to cbet then mostly he calls a lot postflop and don't raise anything.

Hey, thanks for the reply. The are all for full ring games and the 3rd number is postflop aggression factor.

This helps though, I appreciate it.

Originally Posted by TheCourtesyFlush

Hey all, I'm seeing some statistical patterns that I'm not sure what to make of. I've read quite a few books and I haven't seen these patterns mentioned anywhere. These are all from full ring games.

The first is what I'm guessing is a Tight Passive, something like 13/10/0.5. I see a lot of these and wonder why they're never talked about.

The second type, I don't know what the hell to make out of them. Something like a 17/1/3.0. Are they a loose/tight/loose? My brain hurts.

What are these people?

Final question...Is there a statistical pattern to identify a calling station? If so, what might it be?

Thank you for any help or advice.

Strange numbers indeed. My take is this....
Pay attention to hand sample size. You haven't mentioned how many hands it was based on. Although VPIP and PFR start to show quite quickly most of the time. 20 hands and the picture starts to form. 40 hands gives a pretty good idea and 8 outta 10 will give you a good representation. 80-100 hands the type is pretty much established. Although very rarely a good player who normally has overall vpip around 18% might show up around 35% in the first 40ish hands, if they are running extreme well with good cards. But its quite seldom.

VPIP and PFR form quickly. The AF stat needs a lot more hands to be honest, otherwise can be misleading. I'd want at least 100 hands to even consider it. Around 200 would be better still.

So 17/1/3 is very irregular. It must be based on a small sample like below 30 hands. But anyway let's go with it. Don't worry too much about the branding (although its to remind yourself) what's important is what the stats tell you. Because 2 loose/passives can have different tendecies but you will see that in numbers.
So first you look at 17. You say to yourself "Hmm...this guy is selective with his hands." "That is pretty much textbook hand selection for ABC player or TAG"

Then you look at the PFR 1. Your thought process continues "Hmm, that is very weird. He raised only 1% of the hands he played" 1% btw is only AA and KK. So.."Hmm..he is selective like like an abc/tag but only raises monsters." "That means he must be limping AK, AQ,QQ, JJ, etc basically all the other 16%"

Then you look at his AF 3. "Hmm..when he gets involved he can get raunchy postflop. We should expect some bets, even raises from him." "Probably everytime he connects he goes for value big time and wants to get out as much as he can." I can tell you that anyone with AF 3 is pretty tough to play against postflop at times. I'd say tag's AF range could be anywhere 3-6. Looks like this guy can throw in a few bluffs as well, but not many. And when he has hit he goes for the kill.

Anyway. I've never seen such stat and must be a small sample. He cannot be a TAG nor ABC player even if the VPIP is solid because he is losing value by not raising the rest of the hands that are (should be say 12%) in his raising range.

13/10/0.5 would be tight-aggresive preflop and passive post flop. A bit nitty as well.

Regarding your question about calling stations, fish (whale). Yes. You will see them by a mile. Already by 30 hand samples. They will have big gaps between vpip and pfr. Not only that but the vpip will be high (unlike the guy with 17 in example above). Something like 40/7 or 30/4. And will have of course low AF. Some something like 40/7/1. There's a stat called Went to Showdown. It shows you how often they go to showdown. However, it is a bit advanced stat and you'd want samples of several hundred hands and above. But you don't really need it for fish. Once you see 40/7, take it that he already has high WTSD (wenttoshowdown) and that you should avoid bluffing them and just valuing the hell out of them .

P.S. Maniacs will look something like 40/20/4 or 30/15. But calling stations should have AF less than 2. Usually 1.5 and below.

Try this video

You Tube

Originally Posted by Daithi

Strange numbers indeed. My take is this....
Pay attention to hand sample size. You haven't mentioned how many hands it was based on. Although VPIP and PFR start to show quite quickly most of the time. 20 hands and the picture starts to form. 40 hands gives a pretty good idea and 8 outta 10 will give you a good representation. 80-100 hands the type is pretty much established. Although very rarely a good player who normally has overall vpip around 18% might show up around 35% in the first 40ish hands, if they are running extreme well with good cards. But its quite seldom.

Thank you for taking the time to post all of this, it really helps a lot. These are players I'm seeing over 300-500 hands, a few maybe up around 800 but not too much over that. I should have mentioned in the original post, these are at the microstakes (NL2-NL5). We've got all kinds of people down here! :-)

Thanks to Mettagame also for the video, I'm going to watch it now.

Originally Posted by TheCourtesyFlush

Thank you for taking the time to post all of this, it really helps a lot. These are players I'm seeing over 300-500 hands, a few maybe up around 800 but not too much over that. I should have mentioned in the original post, these are at the microstakes (NL2-NL5). We've got all kinds of people down here! :-)

Thanks to Mettagame also for the video, I'm going to watch it now.

No problem at all. Yes, the video Mettagame shared is very handy. The guy is Split Suit Sweeney. He does many in-depth analyses of ranges, flopzilla, Equilab etc. Definitely the right direction. From him you will learn among other things how to better interpret the stats.

Originally Posted by Daithi

No problem at all. Yes, the video Mettagame shared is very handy. The guy is Split Suit Sweeney. He does many in-depth analyses of ranges, flopzilla, Equilab etc. Definitely the right direction. From him you will learn among other things how to better interpret the stats.

I signed up for his CORE program at RedChipPoker. It's a whole poker course for only $5 a week. Pretty awesome so far! :-)

Originally Posted by TheCourtesyFlush

I signed up for his CORE program at RedChipPoker. It's a whole poker course for only $5 a week. Pretty awesome so far! :-)

Nice one. The only thing to mention is that HUDs are facing a very uncertain fate right now. More and more rooms choose not to support them, fully or partially, any more. See the latest thread I have created.