Rule 10 000 hours and poker

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BART777

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The meaning of this rule: of the many studies, whatever area of life is involved!, it takes 10,000 hours of practice to achieve a level of skill commensurate with the status of a world-class expert.
How do you think poker is also part of this rule? Or still poker exception.
 
A fox 666

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This obviously does not apply to poker! You can play all your life, but in the end you can’t achieve anything. In this game, a lot of luck and chance are very high.
 
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ios

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In poker I think it depends - if you only 'click and have fun' - then you can play even 100000 hours and achieve nothing, but if you actually learn at the table, in my opinion, its possible.
 
MARCANE

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Luck vs skill

This obviously does not apply to poker! You can play all your life, but in the end you can’t achieve anything. In this game, a lot of luck and chance are very high.



Very few will argue about luck being a factor in poker. It absolutely is, without question. However, with that being said, I am reminded of something a pro poker player once said. Also, I have played and won enough live poker that I know personally that this is accurate. "Luck absolutely plays a role, but luck by itself does not explain why there are so many familiar faces at the final table."
Now, about the 10,000 hour thing. Yes, if you are focused, and dedicated to improving, on average, people will have about that many hours invested in learning before they're among the best at what they do.
 
mitroff

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I perceive 10,000 hours as a metaphor for "long and hard work." As for the application of this to poker, it seems to me that this is possible but to a certain level (rather, these are average limits).
 
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I honestly still can't say for sure that this is totally true, it is clear that to get better at something the more hours you practice and study the better it gets. say who if you study a subject 1 hour a day for 5 years you become an expert. But in the case of poker I find it strange, there are days when I study for 30 min and I can absorb and practice what I studied correctly, other times I study for 2.3 hours and I cannot record even 10 min what i studied. I think that having a motivation or goal influences learning by 50%. that's why you see people who study poker years without having many solid results and others who in months studying already get the hang of the game, to me it seems that they "know" how to store the information and use it correctly but instinctively, so much that if you ask them howthey didn’t know how to answer because it’s someting with in tem. I don’t know. Those who discover this way of making better use of the mind are the most successful, not only in poker but on whatever They decide to work in life.
 
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This is an interesting subject to discuss, because there is a fundamental truth (of sorts) to it.

I believe in the general theory. Most brilliant people have spent an inordinate amount of time practicing to learn their craft and maintain it, to perform at their best whether chess, ballet or golf or a thousand and one other pursuits.

That said, I believe there are complexities to poker which mean it is close to impossible to master the game. It is not simply the infinite number of card combinations which could develop between several players, but that each and every one of those players has a unique playing style.

My perspective regarding poker is no doubt there are some natural born phenoms (Stu Ungar being the most famous) but for the vast majority the learning process will never be complete. Which makes it fascinating, and that all we can do is add layer upon layer of experience until hopefully,we reach a kind of flow state where much of our play might be called intuitive.

(In closing, I’ll note the original co-authors of what became known as the ‘10,000 Hours Rule’amongst them Kenneth Anders Ericsson have felt the initial thesis was misinterpreted by Malcomb Gladwell who brought their study to the wider public.

The original idea was that to become phenomenal (not simply an expert) would entail thousands of hours of practice or 10 years of serious study etc. But even then the process was not complete, you would need further study and practice to achieve mastery. The co-authors detailed the quality of different types of practice (purposeful or deliberate). It was never a hard and fast 10,000 hours rule that the public took from the Gladwell interpretation).
 
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I think it is possible
But you have to play serious
And not like an idiot or just having fun
 
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This is an interesting subject to discuss, because there is a fundamental truth (of sorts) to it.

I believe in the general theory. Most brilliant people have spent an inordinate amount of time practicing to learn their craft and maintain it, to perform at their best whether chess, ballet or golf or a thousand and one other pursuits.

That said, I believe there are complexities to poker which mean it is close to impossible to master the game. It is not simply the infinite number of card combinations which could develop between several players, but that each and every one of those players has a unique playing style.

My perspective regarding poker is no doubt there are some natural born phenoms (Stu Ungar being the most famous) but for the vast majority the learning process will never be complete. Which makes it fascinating, and that all we can do is add layer upon layer of experience until hopefully,we reach a kind of flow state where much of our play might be called intuitive.

(In closing, I’ll note the original co-authors of what became known as the ‘10,000 Hours Rule’amongst them Kenneth Anders Ericsson have felt the initial thesis was misinterpreted by Malcomb Gladwell who brought their study to the wider public.

The original idea was that to become phenomenal (not simply an expert) would entail thousands of hours of practice or 10 years of serious study etc. But even then the process was not complete, you would need further study and practice to achieve mastery. The co-authors detailed the quality of different types of practice (purposeful or deliberate). It was never a hard and fast 10,000 hours rule that the public took from the Gladwell interpretation).

Depends on what we mean. One-on-one game, one-headed sng can be calculated. But tournament poker, already everything is more complicated, depends a lot on opponents of your table, dynamics of your table game, etc., relative to other tables of tournament. And all exactly there is a group of people always in a plus, pro.
And what about the fact that out of 10,000 hours of practice, there will be 1,000 hours in a row in the downstrip, in which direction (progress or degradation) it counts.
I see that the flow is divided and I don 't know the answer close to the truth either.
 
infonazar

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Undoubtedly, I believe that poker can also be considered in the context of this rule. For a profitable game, you need years of daily hard work.
 
finaltable1

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The meaning of this rule: of the many studies, whatever area of life is involved!, it takes 10,000 hours of practice to achieve a level of skill commensurate with the status of a world-class expert.
How do you think poker is also part of this rule? Or still poker exception.

The best thing you can do is to spit in the face of that person who told you about such 10K hrs BS!

24 * 365 * 100 = 876K hours is 100 year life. You'll be sleeping 30% of this time. Will you live to 100 years? you will spend some % being young, studying, washing in the shower, dating, having sex, sitting or staying in the toilet, making food, staying in traffic and so on...

SO the question is - how much effective time is left?

10K hours will be really large % of that effective time.

About 17 years ago I've learned html in like 7 hours of one single day, learned Macromedia Flash during 3-4 days. Later on learned welding like professional using TIG/MIG/ARC techniques after spending time for ~15 video lessons 3-5 minutes each and practicing right after.

Sad truth of life #1: Society wants you to be stupid and predictable, because this is a method of artificial selection! Only few will realize that being stupid is a really bad option, and living by proposed rules is the worst choice.

Sad truth of life #2: Life is too short for any sort of BS, especially virtual BS which replaces important things. Such BS like: Holly/Bollywood movies, Soap operas, Video games, Funny pics/movies, Pornography are designed to feed your inner animal with trash, but they look nice, and people like it, without having a clue that such things demotivate them, and replace real things with virtual BS.

Just think about it: 3blns of people have watched some Avatar movie, it lasted 3 hours. They've spent 9bln human hours. 3 hours is small number for each individual, but for the whole planet is like 9bln / 876K hours(one 100 year life) = approx 1K human lives have been totally erased like they have never existed. And what kind of profit you're getting after spending 3hrs watching Avatar? Have you learned something new that will help you to evolve and live a better life or you've just killed some time?

Sad truth of life #3: You must quit "killing time", it's impossible. One thing for sure - Time will kill You.
:bike:
 
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I do not think the rule of 10,000 hours is true
 
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The best thing you can do is to spit in the face of that person who told you about such 10K hrs BS!

24 * 365 * 100 = 876K hours is 100 year life. You'll be sleeping 30% of this time. Will you live to 100 years? you will spend some % being young, studying, washing in the shower, dating, having sex, sitting or staying in the toilet, making food, staying in traffic and so on...

SO the question is - how much effective time is left?

10K hours will be really large % of that effective time.

About 17 years ago I've learned html in like 7 hours of one single day, learned Macromedia Flash during 3-4 days. Later on learned welding like professional using TIG/MIG/ARC techniques after spending time for ~15 video lessons 3-5 minutes each and practicing right after.

Sad truth of life #1: Society wants you to be stupid and predictable, because this is a method of artificial selection! Only few will realize that being stupid is a really bad option, and living by proposed rules is the worst choice.

Sad truth of life #2: Life is too short for any sort of BS, especially virtual BS which replaces important things. Such BS like: Holly/Bollywood movies, Soap operas, Video games, Funny pics/movies, Pornography are designed to feed your inner animal with trash, but they look nice, and people like it, without having a clue that such things demotivate them, and replace real things with virtual BS.

Just think about it: 3blns of people have watched some Avatar movie, it lasted 3 hours. They've spent 9bln human hours. 3 hours is small number for each individual, but for the whole planet is like 9bln / 876K hours(one 100 year life) = approx 1K human lives have been totally erased like they have never existed. And what kind of profit you're getting after spending 3hrs watching Avatar? Have you learned something new that will help you to evolve and live a better life or you've just killed some time?

Sad truth of life #3: You must quit "killing time", it's impossible. One thing for sure - Time will kill You.
:bike:

I think you have a very pessimistic view of life. But that 's your opinion and I respect it.
10,000 hours is about 3 hours a day or 20 hours a week for ten years. And this time is no pity if you do what you like. Just as everyone should rest and have a hobby, the individual choice of everyone that it will be: movies, TV series, video games, etc.
In conclusion, in my opinion, "kill time" is to live a "foreign" life, that is, to do what you do not want. Let everyone spend time on what he wants.
 
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The meaning of this rule: of the many studies, whatever area of life is involved!, it takes 10,000 hours of practice to achieve a level of skill commensurate with the status of a world-class expert.

How do you think poker is also part of this rule? Or still poker exception.

I think it also fits to Poker.
When you play sometimes you win, sometimes you loose, like in waves or cycles.
Learning to become a better Poker player and also play lots of real Poker sessions for sure can bring you to alLevel, where you make more money when you are in the "Winning Phase" and loose less money in the "loosing Phase", that would be the plan :) should be proven ;)
 
finaltable1

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I think you have a very pessimistic view of life. But that 's your opinion and I respect it.
10,000 hours is about 3 hours a day or 20 hours a week for ten years. And this time is no pity if you do what you like. Just as everyone should rest and have a hobby, the individual choice of everyone that it will be: movies, TV series, video games, etc.
In conclusion, in my opinion, "kill time" is to live a "foreign" life, that is, to do what you do not want. Let everyone spend time on what he wants.


Optimist can see that the glass is half full of water
Pessimist can see that the glass is half empty
Realist can see the whole picture that the glass has 50% of water and 50% of air.

Pure numbers...

Yes indeed, you're absolutely right from your point of view...
But lets check some interesting facts, shall we? There are plenty experiments on rats. Scientists placed electrodes inside the brain of the rat, directly into the "Joy center". So every time rat stepped on the button, electric signal was sent to her brain and rat felt herself very well, maybe it was some sort of happiness... SO what happened? Rat died during several days, because of hunger. Rat wasn't sleeping. RAT ONLY PUSHED THE BUTTON.

Do we see something similar inside human society? LOL. Every person has his own "button of joy".

What's the difference between these buttons that different people press to feel better?

There are 2 well described ways of evolution of a character through period of his life: 1) Self destruction 2) Prosperity.

Unfortunately Prosperity isn't a simple way. You can see it for yourself. Some Instagram girl has tens of millions of followers, while some scientist or techno blogger isn't even close to 1 million. One of them is taking photos of her butt, while other one proposes something useful. Soap operas and Movies provide nothing useful and have billions of views and are often based on subscriptions or pay-per-view, while educational programs are often free and have very low traffic. Such are stats for choices that people make.

Why?

Because the second way is a hard one, you have to a) think b) do something c) make mistakes and learn on your mistakes d).... and in the mean time you can sit on your chair or lay on your bed and watch your screen, sitting in the submarine of your conscience, called "comfort zone"

So if we'll think about it, we can clearly see that some people are simply pushing the button to get the joy and falsely believe that they're living a interesting life, while others work hard to evolve to a different level, and quite often their personal evolution will grow to the moment when they will begin to provide "the button" for others. :driver:
 
Zvezda kz

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I agree that it takes a long time to become a professional. But we also need a lot of theory and constantly monitor trends and learn new aspects of poker.
In poker you need to be prepared for continuous self-improvement. To become a professional, devote a lot of time to poker.
 
lcid86

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10k rule implies a level of talent, coaching and the ability to learn. I can become competent at something after 10k hours, but I may still not be great.
 
Zvezda kz

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Optimist can see that the glass is half full of water
Pessimist can see that the glass is half empty
Realist can see the whole picture that the glass has 50% of water and 50% of air.

Pure numbers...

Yes indeed, you're absolutely right from your point of view...
But lets check some interesting facts, shall we? There are plenty experiments on rats. Scientists placed electrodes inside the brain of the rat, directly into the "Joy center". So every time rat stepped on the button, electric signal was sent to her brain and rat felt herself very well, maybe it was some sort of happiness... SO what happened? Rat died during several days, because of hunger. Rat wasn't sleeping. RAT ONLY PUSHED THE BUTTON.

Do we see something similar inside human society? LOL. Every person has his own "button of joy".

What's the difference between these buttons that different people press to feel better?

There are 2 well described ways of evolution of a character through period of his life: 1) Self destruction 2) Prosperity.

Unfortunately Prosperity isn't a simple way. You can see it for yourself. Some Instagram girl has tens of millions of followers, while some scientist or techno blogger isn't even close to 1 million. One of them is taking photos of her butt, while other one proposes something useful. Soap operas and Movies provide nothing useful and have billions of views and are often based on subscriptions or pay-per-view, while educational programs are often free and have very low traffic. Such are stats for choices that people make.

Why?

Because the second way is a hard one, you have to a) think b) do something c) make mistakes and learn on your mistakes d).... and in the mean time you can sit on your chair or lay on your bed and watch your screen, sitting in the submarine of your conscience, called "comfort zone"

So if we'll think about it, we can clearly see that some people are simply pushing the button to get the joy and falsely believe that they're living a interesting life, while others work hard to evolve to a different level, and quite often their personal evolution will grow to the moment when they will begin to provide "the button" for others. :driver:
I am glad that in our world there are still many smart people. Therefore, before the death of our world, the time has not yet come. But I also do not lose hope that even more people will understand the effect of zombie media and learn to find the seeds of truth in the husks of information.
 
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