Bluffing Sizes

[Spaceman]

Lets say you have air or a small pair. You know your opponent doesnt have something good and he doesnt like neither the board nor his hand. But you must bluff if you want to win the pot.

The question is, is it better to shove or make a seemingly value bet, hard to call, like you try to extract maximum value and not want to lose value with shoving?

I go for the second most of the time and it works wonders. I choose my bluff to be big enough to not get called but not that big that it will hurt my stack if it get called. I believe shoving translated into two things, nuts or bluff, so somebody would be more eager to call if he suspects a bluff. But bluffing a value bet takes the bluff out of the mind of your opponent and he just thinks about if its +EV to call or not. Am I right? Whats your thoughts on this?

 

[akmost]

You know which is the answer here , it depends.

Personally I try to mix everything in my game , I watch many regulars at twitch and they all analyze the hand like you did , this bet size is polarized , in simple words is or the nuts or a mediocre hand or total air[ I am talking for a big river bet ]

With a calling station against me apparently I will try to maximize my value[>60% pot] and with a tight opponent I will bet smaller[<40%pot]!

Other times when I have air I bluff with a bigger size against a tight opponent who doesn't go very often to the showdown.

Against good players you should be careful so again you should mix tour bet sizes a little bit.

I remember vividly once in CC FRC I bluffed on the river a good opponent by betting only 25% and he folded!

I would like also to mention the following concept, you are playing against a very aggressive player and you bet way too small on the river, you can do that with a strong hand in order to induce him to go all in or raise you simply becayse you are telling him that you are weak....NOT!

Last but not least I have figured out that about 80% of the times a river lead bet means that you are beaten when you play on smaller stakes.If you play with good opponents you know that this is not always the strongest combination but sometime is just a blocker bet!!

Hope I helped

 

[Spaceman]

Always interested to read your answers man! Thanks for the thoughtful post!:top:

You know which is the answer here , it depends.

Against good players you should be careful so again you should mix tour bet sizes a little bit.

I remember vividly once in CC FRC I bluffed on the river a good opponent by betting only 25% and he folded!

Last but not least I have figured out that about 80% of the times a river lead bet means that you are beaten when you play on smaller stakes.If you play with good opponents you know that this is not always the strongest combination but sometime is just a blocker bet!!

I only play micro stakes, but today and all the times I made the mistake of jumping to higher shark-infested buyins I found out that betting and bluffing sizes are a whole different world indeed. What usually works with fishes wont cut it with better players.

 

[alienat3d]

Sorry, if i'm repeating some of things, that akmost, rightly said, but yeah it really depends on many things, on who are your opponents, on what is your image at the table and so on, but to keep your variance lower i would go the most time for smaller "value bet alike" bluffs. The problem with the shove (over pot bet), that on micro/low limits there are many fish that would call it down with just top pair no kicker and laugh about you. And nits wouldn't call a half-pot value bet without strong hand. So i would save money for the case they do really have a hand and calling anyway, keeping the variance lower.

Also, when i figure out my bluff bet sizing at river, i would remember, how much did i bet last time i had it and showed my hand? Was it 50% or was it 75% or was it pot bet? Do exactly the same with your bluff. Maybe my opponent paid attention and it bring him to thoughts i just trying to extract a value from very strong hand again.

Still be careful about your patterns of bluffing, when playing with regs. If they are good, they making notes. Since your value-bet bluff been called, maybe you would like to switch to overpot bet, at the next situation, when you decide to bluff. Always change the gears, don't do the same thing in the same situation, when you play with good players. That way you make it harder to find a key you can be exploited.
Also vice verse, always try to find a leak in your opponents play. Some people play differently with a strong and with a weak hands. Especially at micros, there are hardly anyone know what GTO is and how it works, so they have a lot of patterns through their actions you need to catch up, note and exploit as soon as possible.

 

[akmost]

Also, when i figure out my bluff bet sizing at river, i would remember, how much did i bet last time i had it and showed my hand? Was it 50% or was it 75% or was it pot bet? Do exactly the same with your bluff. Maybe my opponent paid attention and it bring him to thoughts i just trying to extract a value from very strong hand again.

Thanks for bringing this on!!I read a study some months ago and was saying that the average poker player remembers at max the last 5 actions.So what alienat3d mentioned here is pure gold for every stake against every opponent.This is the art of balancing!!

I have noticed that if an opponent open shoves let's say 3 consecutive times the first may be the lighter of all. Most of the times the last one is with the top of his range.If someone decides to 3 bet you ,maybe the first time is the lighter and the next ones will be with a decent holding, I would like to read your thoughts here guys because this is an assumption of mine!

I remember once at partypoker someone 3bet me 3 times in a row , I am the definition of no tilt guy, and the third time I 4bet jam with AQs [relatively deep there] he had JJ and unfortunately he held there for a massive pot.

ps. Spaceman?It depends LOL