This is a discussion on $2 NLHE Full Ring: ΚΚ overpair on the River vs three donk-bets within the online poker forums, in the Cash Game Hand Analysis section; Another hand from the session:
EP limps, EP+1 folds, EP+2 limps, UTG folds, HJ (Villain) limps, CO (Hero) raises to 0.10$, BTN folds, SB folds, BB
There are at least two unknowns for this hand that you did not post that would affect how anyone would reply to this post. First, what are the stack sizes? I assume at least 100 BBs for you and villain (which we know villain has 100BBs based on the bet sizings) but do you have 100 BBs or did you start the hand with less? The shorter you are here would incline me more to going with the KK where as anything over 75 BBs to start the hand would make me back off this. Second unknown is one of your kings the K of hearts? This would factor into my turn decision when we got there vs if I had no hearts.
As far as the hand goes, your raise needs to be larger and I would say much larger. With 3 limpers in front I would not go any smaller that 15 cents here and I think you can go into the high teen range if you wanted to. Using the 3x plus one for each limper puts you at 12 cents and I think for cash games you need to go higher than that rule (just my opinion there). That probably does not change the hand but it might deter getting many callers as even though we want someone to call with a worse hand there is an inflection point to where if everyone calls we are worse off. We really want just one caller if we could make it that way.
The flop is a terrible flop for us against limpers who then called our raise. Its a wet board that nails small pairs for sets, straights could already be there and flush draws could be there as well. We get donk led into which on first glance would make me think a hand that does not want us to check behind (meaning I dont put them on hearts here and I am guessing there but going by feel). Sets could play this way as well as made straights and 2 pair hands. I would call here on the flop but I am hating things right now.
Turn is a bad card since it brings a heart even though I said I dont think they have hearts. It could be good in a sense it could slow down a set and straight but that is the only good I see. When they donk lead again for half pot or so this is where the big decision has to be made. I am either folding now or going all the way with this. I dont think it is good to call the turn and then fold the river unless maybe you call and river is an ace. You could raise here an try to rep the flush but then you are trying to get 2 pair, a set or straight to fold and at 2 NL that is tough to do. Personally I make a tight fold here on the turn and maybe we got bluffed off but I dont think so. I dont think I am going against 77-1010 here based on all action including the turn so Im feeling Im beat here, fold and move on.
As others have said, this isolation raise against 3 limpers need to be much larger. If a single player had put in 6c, you would probably 3-bet to 20c, and you can honestly do the same here. There is still 9c of dead money in the pot, and you want to make them pay to see a flop and thin out the field. 20c is admittedly very large, but at 2NL they are gonna pay anyway, and its Zoom, so you dont need to worry about giving away bet sizing tells. At the bare minimum make it 15c to go.
This is a terrible flop for KK against 3 limp-calling opponents, and the donk bet is pretty bad action as well. Even if the guy is on some kind of draw, its going to be really difficult to get KK to showdown and still feel good about the hand. The draws have a ton of equity at this point, and a lot of the time the board will run out with a 1-liner to a straight, and/or the flushdraw will complete. If he has a flopped straight, you are completely dead.
You also have to worry about the other two guys, who have just naturally checked to you. Each of them could also have outflopped you. I guess, its sort of ok to call and see, what develops, but if anyone else comes along for the ride, I am 100% done with the hand. And honestly I would not hate laying it down right now and Zoom on to the next hand.
The other guys did get out of the way, and he fires again. The board did not get any worse, but its still a totally sticky spot, and if I did not fold on the flop, I would fold now. Cut your losses and move on.
Now the 1-liner came, and you have a very easy fold. You are only beating missed hearts, and he wont have that often enough to make a profitable call.
I don't like this flop call with KK. I would prefer to 3-bet his donk bet. If he went all-in, it would be an easy fold for us, since most likely the villain caught a set with a small pocket. And if your opponent calls with a flush draw or a straight draw, then maybe a blank card will slow him down on the turn and he will check.
re: Poker & $2 NLHE Full Ring: ΚΚ overpair on the River vs three donk-bets
from the donk bet would giving him a range of 2 pairs, sets, maybe A6 type hands be fair? seems like too many people in the hand for villain to bluff , hes probably trying to protect/ get value with some sort of made hand and doesnt want it to check around. Is folding on the turn an option? what do we beat ? A6? does villain limp and donk with hands like 88,99?
My opinion is that pocket pairs often lose big pots. Because it is difficult for them to improve. You made a big raise on the preflop, but the opponents still call. Your bet size does not matter, because many players want to see the flop. And the more often they catch their draw or set, the more often you will lose big pots. The villain began to act aggressively on the flop, although he was just making a limp on the preflop. He can have absolutely any cards. And it should be clear to you on the turn that it will be difficult to reach the showdown. Because 50% of the pot on every street is an inevitable all-in on the river. I'm calling to the end in tournament poker. But the cash game gives you the right to fold on any street and just top up the stack.