When Late Reg FINALLY ends.....

We've all been there. Late Registration has FINALLY closed and we tighten up our range with a medium stack. Some might loosen up here applying pressure in certain situations, but if you aren't getting - even - moderately playable hands - this is usually a losing strategy relying more on luck than anything. 20-30bbs is enough to work from LP and defend properly, but unless getting strong hands, it's advisable not to be calling down those short stack shoves - that are happening every 1-3 hands.

Folding diligently and playing well in position when we are able.

We finally get one of those monsters we need to move up - and possibly double up, KK in the BB - yes I'm going to play this well and get some "playin" chips.

And one of two things happen.


#1 a shorty shoves - and we call knowing out KKs have the shorty dominated with his shoving range. Shorty turns over Ax rag, and binks the Ace somewhere on the board.

#2 Everyone folds and we collect 2.5bb to our stack. Actually it's only 1.5 bb because the 1bb came from our stack.

Hey - at least we didn't get stacked by a disguised set - this time

I'll be honest, sometimes late reg is the worst thing, especially those like two hour late reg tournaments where dozens of people buy-in at the last few minutes and then just start shoving anything. I personally try to stay with short late reg MTTs because I think they have a lot less of that going on besides the early stages (which is of course expected). But yeah I've definitely been there with KK lol

thatguy6793 said:

I'll be honest, sometimes late reg is the worst thing, especially those like two hour late reg tournaments where dozens of people buy-in at the last few minutes and then just start shoving anything. I personally try to stay with short late reg MTTs because I think they have a lot less of that going on besides the early stages (which is of course expected). But yeah I've definitely been there with KK lol

Click to expand...

The shortest late reg. MTT events on ACR at micro/low stakes is two hours. I really don't mind the late registration periods when people are immediately rebuying if busting, and a lot are attempting to late reg at the last minute to see if they can get a quick double and have a chance at cashing.

During this time I intentionally tank every decision - reducing the number of hands these short stack players get to see. Limiting the number of hands they see - where they might have a double up opportunity is an edge for players who have any sizeable stack above 30bb.
Its also nice when we pick up a strong hand here so we can add to our stack from these players who have a wider shoving range.
A lot of players will shove any one broadway in LP/blinds trying to luck out and insta rebuy if they miss, so giving them less opportunities makes their strategy less effective.
After late reg closes, they only have one chance to luck into a hand.

theANMATOR said:

I really don't mind the late registration periods when people are immediately rebuying if busting, and a lot are attempting to late reg at the last minute to see if they can get a quick double and have a chance at cashing.

Click to expand...

Maybe people do this, because the tournament offers an overlay. An overlay is like reverse ICM, because the value of chips won are larger than the price of rebuying. So rather than getting annoyed about it, maybe you should also look for tournaments, which offer overlay, and take advantage of it by playing more aggressive near the end of late registering. Or even register in the last minute yourself sometimes.

fundiver199 said:

Maybe people do this, because the tournament offers an overlay. An overlay is like reverse ICM, because the value of chips won are larger than the price of rebuying. So rather than getting annoyed about it, maybe you should also look for tournaments, which offer overlay, and take advantage of it by playing more aggressive near the end of late registering. Or even register in the last minute yourself sometimes.

Click to expand...

? I stated I don't mind this period of a tourney - I didn't say this annoyed me.

Your logic is probably sound regarding tourney overlays vs max late registering, however this happens in nearly every tournament - so I doubt it has anything to do with any overlay.
Late registering at the last minute for the least amount of bb a player can possibly have it relying nearly totally on luck - so this is not a strategy I will ever use, but it doesn't bother me that others attempt it.
Regarding overlays on ACR - there are tourneys that often do not hit the guarantee, but the payout structure is nearly always the same, unless there are just very few runners - which is never the case. For instance for a 2k gtd, with a 2.20 buyin - the min cash will nearly always be 4 bucks, and busting at the final table bubble is nearly always 10x the buyin.

I did recently play in a 6 dollar event where the payout structure was different though, min-cash was 15 dollars, and bubbling FT was gong to be a nearly 20x the buyin. I failed to cash this time - but I'll be watching this event more closely to understand how the payout structure differs compared to others.

I have never played on ACR, so cant comment on tendencies there. On 888 Poker most MTTs offer late registration, until a starting stack is around 10BB. But while there are always a few players entering at the last moment, I would not call it common. So this is why, I was wondering, if maybe there is something else going on at ACR, which can explain the experience of you and others, that this is very common

it's about the size of the stack, but also about the ability to play with different stacks - and you need to understand that the variance and dependence of the price of chips and the prize money also play a role

ICM math shows why long late registration periods are unfair to those who register on time.
https://www.parttimepoker.com/kenny-hallaert-invisible-damage-late-registration

fundiver199 said:

Maybe people do this, because the tournament offers an overlay. An overlay is like reverse ICM, because the value of chips won are larger than the price of rebuying. So rather than getting annoyed about it, maybe you should also look for tournaments, which offer overlay, and take advantage of it by playing more aggressive near the end of late registering. Or even register in the last minute yourself sometimes.

Click to expand...

This is a good point about the overlay!

While I too find the hours late reg obnoxious sometimes because it inflates my session length (especially hard now that I have two kids ) but there are also more tournaments with overlay than before all of this.

Most likely these tournaments are more profitable in the long run because of the long late reg, even if there are some annoying aspects in the short term

perrypip said:

ICM math shows why long late registration periods are unfair to those who register on time.

Click to expand...

They are, but the issue is, poker sites have no incentive to create fair games, if it hurts their bottom line. And the reality is, most people either dont understand the ICM implications of late registration, or they dont care enough to actively seek out tournaments with more reasonable late registration.

For instance 888 Poker has created a new format called "the classic", where late registration ends after 70 minutes (30BB) rather than 130 minutes (10BB), as it does with other tournaments on the site, that have a similar blind structure. But yesterday the 4pm CET 5,5$ "big fish" created a price pool of more than 4.000$ vastly exceeding its 3.000$ guaranty, when its160 minute late registration finally ended. The 6pm CET 5$ "classic" however only barely managed to reach its already much smaller 1.000$ guaranty.

So there is no reward for 888 Poker, should they decide to limit late registration in their 5,5$ "big fish" to a more reasonable 80-90 minutes. It will only result in lost revenue. So we can either continue to enter early and accept, that the value of our stack is diluted by last minute entries, or we can jump on the wagon and register late ourselfes.

It often happens that a monster's hands do not go in, and when they do, everyone does a pass. That's why I try to play suited connectors and if I don't get a match on the board, I turn my hand into a bluff, it works especially well against tight opponents.

If the tournament is slow at the end of registration, the size of the blinds will not greatly affect your stack. If you want to win the tournament it is better to start playing earlier at any speed. You can have a good advantage over players who have a starting stack.

WHen Late reg ends. you finally got all the fish in the barrel.

fundiver199 said:

They are, but the issue is, poker sites have no incentive to create fair games, if it hurts their bottom line. And the reality is, most people either dont understand the ICM implications of late registration, or they dont care enough to actively seek out tournaments with more reasonable late registration.

For instance 888 Poker has created a new format called "the classic", where late registration ends after 70 minutes (30BB) rather than 130 minutes (10BB), as it does with other tournaments on the site, that have a similar blind structure. But yesterday the 4pm CET 5,5$ "big fish" created a price pool of more than 4.000$ vastly exceeding its 3.000$ guaranty, when its160 minute late registration finally ended. The 6pm CET 5$ "classic" however only barely managed to reach its already much smaller 1.000$ guaranty.

So there is no reward for 888 Poker, should they decide to limit late registration in their 5,5$ "big fish" to a more reasonable 80-90 minutes. It will only result in lost revenue. So we can either continue to enter early and accept, that the value of our stack is diluted by last minute entries, or we can jump on the wagon and register late ourselfes.

Click to expand...

This is interesting. Does this late reg. ICM importance trump registering normally and taking advantage of players who are more willing to provide us with chips early in events?
The chips gained early, although clearly not worth as much as those late registration chips, still put us in a much more optimal position when late registration has closed (or right at late reg bubble) to be able to 'afford' to play a better game of poker.

What I'm trying to say here is 50bb at late registration is better (worth more) than only having 10bb.

Maybe you can expand on your input fundiver and correct my logic if it's needed.

theANMATOR said:

We've all been there. Late Registration has FINALLY closed and we tighten up our range with a medium stack. Some might loosen up here applying pressure in certain situations, but if you aren't getting - even - moderately playable hands - this is usually a losing strategy relying more on luck than anything. 20-30bbs is enough to work from LP and defend properly, but unless getting strong hands, it's advisable not to be calling down those short stack shoves - that are happening every 1-3 hands.

Folding diligently and playing well in position when we are able.

We finally get one of those monsters we need to move up - and possibly double up, KK in the BB - yes I'm going to play this well and get some "playin" chips.

And one of two things happen.


#1 a shorty shoves - and we call knowing out KKs have the shorty dominated with his shoving range. Shorty turns over Ax rag, and binks the Ace somewhere on the board.

#2 Everyone folds and we collect 2.5bb to our stack. Actually it's only 1.5 bb because the 1bb came from our stack.

Hey - at least we didn't get stacked by a disguised set - this time

Click to expand...

this happened to me twice yesterday but with AA .
late reg ended , i was meduim stack , and i got AA when i was in bb , it flods to me even the sb folded
2hands later i get AA again ( iknow luuuckyy) (its 6max) so i was Co it folds to me and i raise to 2bb , sb and bb folds

consider limping = NO

chalghaf said:

this happened to me twice yesterday but with AA .
late reg ended , i was meduim stack , and i got AA when i was in bb , it flods to me even the sb folded
2hands later i get AA again ( iknow luuuckyy) (its 6max) so i was Co it folds to me and i raise to 2bb , sb and bb folds

Click to expand...

Right - I know the feeling all too well. Had very similar thing happen to me last night but full ring.

It makes you want to consider a (weak/deceptive) limping strategy with the big hands in late position, although - if you we do that - we will surely get sucked out on and stacked!! lol

theANMATOR said:

Right - I know the feeling all too well. Had very similar thing happen to me last night but full ring.

It makes you want to consider a (weak/deceptive) limping strategy with the big hands in late position, although - if you we do that - we will surely get sucked out on and stacked!! lol

Click to expand...

poker has luck involved if we would like to admit or not , doesnt matter how good of a player you are , you need to be lucky too , to the bare minimum atleast , that doesnt mean luck will be enough but sure as hell helps especially when you combine it with skill !
skill sets in poker just help you handles the "bad luck" runs better and maximaze you winnings when you running hot !

2 hours is all I like to go until late reg. 5 hour late reg i dunno YOU CAN ONLY DODGE SHIT FOR SO LONG. but yeaI hate the stalling stuff for the bubble a lot worse.

Then I tell myself, well this will give you a of deep stack pratice if you play all 5 hours till real game. I dunno I just dont know how to protect my stack. so I build a massive stack in the first 2 hours and spend the next 4 slowly bleeding it off. its amazing

ZenGreen said:

so I build a massive stack in the first 2 hours and spend the next 4 slowly bleeding it off. its amazing

Click to expand...

HAHA we have the exact same strategy - and same final 4 hours. lol GL bud.

I'll say it as many times as it takes to get myself forward in time to the point that there are no more late registrations--late registration shouldn't exist. If you can't be bothered to show up on time for a tournament, you shouldn't get to play. That's applicable to poker, trading card games, freaking Scrabble. Being on time is the minimum standard for being an actual grown-ass person.

Late reg also gives you the opportunity to build up a monster stack from all the spazz jammers and bad players who toast off during the early levels.

Buying in late and short when you are against big stacks built by the better players is a really high variance game. Also unless you sun run it is very difficult to get to the final 3 or 4 players and that is where the real money is won and with that comes the chances to up your average ROI. if your coming in the final 3-4 levels prior to the end of late reg and popping off 3-4 bullets and only hoping to min+ cash you are going to be experiencing a very low total ROI. I very rarely come in after 40BB .

Another thing is how many hours of late reg and how many BB you get to start . A tourney with 4-5 hours late reg 10 minute levels and 83.33 big blinds to start is basically a rake trap. even at 100 bb its pretty rake trappy with that long of a Late Reg.
you would mostly be wanting to play 200 BB starting stacks 2 or 3 hours late reg and 8 -12 minute levels.
My main games are: 3hr 12 min and 200bb or 2 hr 8 minute and 200bb. I will sometimes go for 2 hr 10 min and 125 bb. I only play large fields 500-750 players with the lowest of my buy in range and only infrequently. I will play 500-300 fields with my second lowest buy in of my range and as infrequent as the 500+ fields. I never play my ABI size in a game with more than 250 and the top levels are reserved for the small field slow structured games as is the main volume of my grind. I am also much more willing to fire bullets and late bullets at the lowest levels. I almost never fire a second shot at something greater than my average buy in and never a late one.

Most of them are just donating chips with bad hands, so why worry about the few who run it up?

Thats funny. I wait till the end of late reg. and then I get in, I don't mind the rebuys but its more interesting when they can't rebuy and they usually play different. I look at tourneys that reg is about to end, which saves me couple hours..lol.

Yes, late reg in a tournament can bring a different way that a game plays out. Much like rebuys can make a game different. I like that it is different than the standard no late entry option. for one thing, if I am running errands, I can still get in a favorite tourney. For another, I can always skip 2 hours of a 5 hour tourney if I do not want to sit for 5 hours to win a couple bucks.

I dont like late reg all that much, but I hate rebuys and addon... feel like russian roulette with the gun always poited to my head.