Is my delayed c-bet % too high for MTT's?

iugiug

iugiug

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Hi everyone,

I recently noticed my delayed c-bet % on several sites is ~70% in MTT's. I never looked into this stat much before. The 70% figure is after a massive sample size, so I feel it's reliable unless my tracking software is calculating it wrong. I looked up a couple winning regulars delayed c-bet, one was at 40% after 3.5K hands, and the other was at 29% after 3.8K hands.

So first off all I'm curious as to what sample size is needed to start trusting this stat? Seeing such a wide gap between myself and these two players is pretty scary, and would like to know if my % is way out of line. I know my c-bet is on the high side as well, but lately I've been c-betting less. I should have kept my on my delayed c-bet%, but I neglected to do so. Please feel free to comment, and thanks for reading.
 
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fundiver199

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Delayed C-bet is not a stat, I have given much consideration, but 70% does sound very high. How high is your flop C-bet? If this is also very high, then you are almost certainly bluffing to much or betting with to many showdown value type hands. If your flop C-bet is low, then look to increase that number and see, what it does to your delayed C-betting. That being said if an atypical style work for you, why not continue. At the end of the day the only number, which really matter for a MTT or SnG player, is the ROI :)
 
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iugiug said:
Hi everyone,

I recently noticed my delayed c-bet % on several sites is ~70% in MTT's. I never looked into this stat much before. The 70% figure is after a massive sample size, so I feel it's reliable unless my tracking software is calculating it wrong. I looked up a couple winning regulars delayed c-bet, one was at 40% after 3.5K hands, and the other was at 29% after 3.8K hands.

So first off all I'm curious as to what sample size is needed to start trusting this stat? Seeing such a wide gap between myself and these two players is pretty scary, and would like to know if my % is way out of line. I know my c-bet is on the high side as well, but lately I've been c-betting less. I should have kept my on my delayed c-bet%, but I neglected to do so. Please feel free to comment, and thanks for reading.
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Hi fundiver,
How is delayed C-bet not a stat? Yes, I believe my C-bet% is too high, it's around 68%, but I think it's been slowly coming down as I been made aware that it was too high a few months ago. I understand an atypical style may produce a +ROI, but that doesn't mean I should be complacent on it. I suspect some regulars regulars are winning at significantly higher rates, therefore I think I should be looking for reasons why.
 
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so this is what I've been doing lately...on the flop I mostly check all my draws and huge hands when checked to. Which will give your opponents time to catch up and over-valuate their hand, i'm pretty sure you shouldn't be worried about the stat just to much, but you should have a more balanced linear range on the flop. Basically only c-bet bluffs on boards that are not dynamic at all gl
 
Collin Moshman

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I also haven't given this stat a lot of thought, but agree that 70% is probably high enough that there are more times you should be checking back turn also and looking to take advantage of the showdown value of your hand.
 
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fundiver199

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iugiug said:
I understand an atypical style may produce a +ROI, but that doesn't mean I should be complacent on it. I suspect some regulars regulars are winning at significantly higher rates, therefore I think I should be looking for reasons why.
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Absolutely agree. What I meant, was just, that there is no point in worrying about having "perfect" stats just for the sake of the stats themselfes. For instance many cash games players worry about a falling red-line (non showdown winning), because it mean, you are not playing "perfect" poker. But in reality its the style, which work best in games with many calling stations. So you need to dig a little deeper and figure out, if all those delayed C-bets are actually costing you chips or not. And if people constantly fold to them, then maybe other regulars should do the same as you :)
 
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fundiver199 said:
Delayed C-bet is not a stat, I have given much consideration, but 70% does sound very high. How high is your flop C-bet? If this is also very high, then you are almost certainly bluffing to much or betting with to many showdown value type hands. If your flop C-bet is low, then look to increase that number and see, what it does to your delayed C-betting. That being said if an atypical style work for you, why not continue. At the end of the day the only number, which really matter for a MTT or SnG player, is the ROI :)
Click to expand...
Yeah, I suspected I've been bluffing too much and or betting too many showdown hands. The good thing is I'm not doing it near as much anymore, so I expect both my c-bet and delayed c-bet % to start coming down. I've sort of adopted a new strategy lately that already feels superior to my former one. It's more balanced with value c-bets and bluffs on all 3 streets. Thanks for the feedback. :D
 
SwaggyJ

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iugiug said:
Hi everyone,

I recently noticed my delayed c-bet % on several sites is ~70% in MTT's. I never looked into this stat much before. The 70% figure is after a massive sample size, so I feel it's reliable unless my tracking software is calculating it wrong. I looked up a couple winning regulars delayed c-bet, one was at 40% after 3.5K hands, and the other was at 29% after 3.8K hands.

So first off all I'm curious as to what sample size is needed to start trusting this stat? Seeing such a wide gap between myself and these two players is pretty scary, and would like to know if my % is way out of line. I know my c-bet is on the high side as well, but lately I've been c-betting less. I should have kept my on my delayed c-bet%, but I neglected to do so. Please feel free to comment, and thanks for reading.
Click to expand...

Of that 70%, how much % of your cbets are from EP and how many are from LP?
 
iugiug

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SwaggyJ said:
Of that 70%, how much % of your cbets are from EP and how many are from LP?
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It's actually 100% in both early and late positions. The filtered data shows 479 hands in early position and 935 hands in late position. This includes 6 and 9 max, early and late positions were assigned to both appropriately. My total hands is 470k, this being on ignition.
 
iugiug

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Sorry, I didn't put the right filters in obv. Off-course it's going to show 100% for all hands the way I filtered the data. I'll work on getting the correct numbers later tonight.
 
Ducky7

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iugiug said:
Hi everyone,

I recently noticed my delayed c-bet % on several sites is ~70% in MTT's. I never looked into this stat much before. The 70% figure is after a massive sample size, so I feel it's reliable unless my tracking software is calculating it wrong. I looked up a couple winning regulars delayed c-bet, one was at 40% after 3.5K hands, and the other was at 29% after 3.8K hands.

So first off all I'm curious as to what sample size is needed to start trusting this stat? Seeing such a wide gap between myself and these two players is pretty scary, and would like to know if my % is way out of line. I know my c-bet is on the high side as well, but lately I've been c-betting less. I should have kept my on my delayed c-bet%, but I neglected to do so. Please feel free to comment, and thanks for reading.
Click to expand...

70% isn't overly high, cbet / delayed cbet 65% is a pretty solid stat and with antes in tournaments you get a better price to cbet so becomes better.

I doubt 29% is ever a good delayed cbet amount so sample is gonna be a concern. You would need a large amount to determine your overall stat esp. in tourneys as the situations are always so different with stack sizes so it will take a massive amount of hands to get a true reflection.
You want to be focusing more on what spots delayed cbets are gonna make sense.
 
iugiug

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SwaggyJ said:
Of that 70%, how much % of your cbets are from EP and how many are from LP?
Click to expand...
OK, I got you the correct % for my del cb in EP and LP. EP: 69.12%, LP: 71.02%. Let me know what you think. Thanks.
 
SwaggyJ

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iugiug said:
OK, I got you the correct % for my del cb in EP and LP. EP: 69.12%, LP: 71.02%. Let me know what you think. Thanks.
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I actually dont mind that number Ideally it could be a bit lower. Choose your spots well and wise.

My main concern would be how much of a bet you are throwing out there on the turn.

Many players dont realize that betting 25-30% of the pot could portray the same type of hand when betting 50-75% of the pot.

Also keeping the bet sizes small on delayed cbets keeps you from punting a lot of chips over the course of a tournament.
 
iugiug

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Yeah, I gotcha. I mix it up. I'll go for 1/4-1/3 generally, but sometimes I'll go bigger depending on my opponent(s), my position, stack depth, board texture, and ICM implications if any. You know theirs so many things to consider, that's why I play a maximum of 4 tables now days. Good luck, and grind hard.
 
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