Open ended with a small stack

vox1er

vox1er

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Total posts
204
Chips
0
Blinds are 3000/1500 with antes

Hero is effective stack with 60,000.

Folds to hero on the button (A9)
Hero bets 9000
SB (350000) calls

Pot 25,000
Flop 7 8 10 rainbow
SB check, Hero check

Turn 4
SB 15,000

Should I be betting this flop? As played do I shove here?
 
K

kozong

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Total posts
1,442
Awards
8
Chips
2
yes to a shove on turn & also yes to a flop cbet w/ an intention to jam the turn
 
eetenor

eetenor

Legend
Platinum Level
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Total posts
2,187
Awards
2
Chips
192
Blinds are 3000/1500 with antes

Hero is effective stack with 60,000.

Folds to hero on the button (A9)
Hero bets 9000
SB (350000) calls

Pot 25,000
Flop 7 8 10 rainbow
SB check, Hero check

Turn 4
SB 15,000

Should I be betting this flop? As played do I shove here?


Thank U 4 Posting.

What range do you put villain on?

Will villain fold any of that range?

What equity do you have on the turn?

Example vs 86 you have 22% you are getting 27%

Will 86 fold to a shove?

Will better than 86 fold to a shove?

Will villain bet 2 overcards?

Do you have an advantage at your table where keeping 10BB is worth more than taking a 22% equity play if called?

Hope this helps

:):)
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
13,524
Awards
1
Chips
308
I would C-bet the flop. You have an OESD, and you might also simply have the best hand with A high. He if check-jam, its not great, but you just call it off and hope to run good. If he call, I would probably check back the turn looking to give up on the river, if I brick.
 
D

dorynel7

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Total posts
433
Chips
0
C-bet on the flop best move, and turn the push all-in. GL
 
B

Brawo

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Total posts
245
Chips
0
You have only 20bigs and you bet from BTN to big stack?
SB always call you because post flop you play very truly and honestly, soo..?
...A9 (suited or off here it doesn't matter) you should shove to build maximum fold equity on your opponents, because if you - like here - don't hit the flop (only ace high with OESD, no ready hand to play) you lost your chips. Fold equity is really strong strategy.
 
kley126

kley126

Visionary
Bronze Level
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Total posts
551
Awards
2
VE
Chips
52
you shouldn't play it with those cards for me the best option is to fold than lose all your chips
 
Luvepoker

Luvepoker

Lost in the twilight zone
Community Guide
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Total posts
5,284
Awards
23
US
Chips
513
On that flop I would have c-bet and called if he shoved every time.
 
chilindrodolar

chilindrodolar

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 16, 2019
Total posts
179
Chips
0
I would bet on the flop if you increase ,Fold is a strategy really strong.
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Total posts
1,324
Chips
0
I guess I am going to be that guy....I disagree with all the folks telling you to cbet this flop. Here is my perspective on the hand.

The preflop raise is too big, no need to make it 3bb with a 20bb stack. We need to have a plan every time we raise - if our plan here is to raise/fold to any jams then 6k does everything that 9k will do for us and costs less. If you are committed to calling off then why not open jam?

Moving on - I like the check on the flop much better than a cbet. This board smashes the SB way more than your opening range even as wide as the button can be...if we cbet this flop and get jammed on do we really want to call it off with a straight draw and one over? We want to get our money in good...not when we are behind - so it's a shame here to get check-raised when we have a good draw and an Ace.

The check back on the flop will allow us to realize our equity in the hand without being check raised on the flop and over committing to a spot that you are likely beaten on and looking to suckout to win the hand...again, we want to be getting it in when we have the best of it...not when we are behind! What better hands can we get to fold by cbetting this flop? Better Aces? They shouldve all 3bet us preflop unless they are super passive. Are 66s even folding this flop to one bet? So I think given this board we are only getting called by a ton of hands that are better than ours while hands we beat will still likely be beaten on the turn. Plus when we do cbet here and get called we only have one of two turn options - we either give up on the hand, or we shove and are likely getting called by straights, 10s, and or maybe even some sticky 8s and annnny 1 pair + straight draw combos. I would elect to cbet this board if one card was a K or maybe even a Q - but since that's not the case I would check this board back ALOT. We still potentially have the best hand here quite a bit and as I have said plenty already - it's a shame to open the door for us to be pushed off our equity on the flop.

So that all said lol - anyhow, when the flop goes check-check and our opponent leads the turn at best we have approximately 22% to win the hand vs a random range - that is, IF we are indeed behind in the hand - also by leading the turn our opponent allows us to fold cheaply - if they had J9 here they should be checking alot or betting small to try and induce bluffs from our ranges and get calls from draws and sticky Ace high combos. Betting pot here is pretty polarizing...pretty likely they have a made hand of some sorts, are confident their hand is likely good and are looking to stack off to any jams.

In conclusion- raise 2x preflop, 3x on 20bb is just too big unless we are definitely committed to calling off jams preflop - raise 2x, check back flop - fold the turn lead and move on. You only lost 2 BB, all the good $$ in MTTs is at the final table - so we should be looking to do all we can to get there!!

Hope this makes sense. Hope it helps. Take care!
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
13,524
Awards
1
Chips
308
I guess I am going to be that guy....I disagree with all the folks telling you to cbet this flop. Here is my perspective on the hand.

The preflop raise is too big, no need to make it 3bb with a 20bb stack. We need to have a plan every time we raise - if our plan here is to raise/fold to any jams then 6k does everything that 9k will do for us and costs less. If you are committed to calling off then why not open jam?

Moving on - I like the check on the flop much better than a cbet. This board smashes the SB way more than your opening range even as wide as the button can be...if we cbet this flop and get jammed on do we really want to call it off with a straight draw and one over? We want to get our money in good...not when we are behind - so it's a shame here to get check-raised when we have a good draw and an Ace.

The check back on the flop will allow us to realize our equity in the hand without being check raised on the flop and over committing to a spot that you are likely beaten on and looking to suckout to win the hand...again, we want to be getting it in when we have the best of it...not when we are behind! What better hands can we get to fold by cbetting this flop? Better Aces? They shouldve all 3bet us preflop unless they are super passive. Are 66s even folding this flop to one bet? So I think given this board we are only getting called by a ton of hands that are better than ours while hands we beat will still likely be beaten on the turn. Plus when we do cbet here and get called we only have one of two turn options - we either give up on the hand, or we shove and are likely getting called by straights, 10s, and or maybe even some sticky 8s and annnny 1 pair + straight draw combos. I would elect to cbet this board if one card was a K or maybe even a Q - but since that's not the case I would check this board back ALOT. We still potentially have the best hand here quite a bit and as I have said plenty already - it's a shame to open the door for us to be pushed off our equity on the flop.

So that all said lol - anyhow, when the flop goes check-check and our opponent leads the turn at best we have approximately 22% to win the hand vs a random range - that is, IF we are indeed behind in the hand - also by leading the turn our opponent allows us to fold cheaply - if they had J9 here they should be checking alot or betting small to try and induce bluffs from our ranges and get calls from draws and sticky Ace high combos. Betting pot here is pretty polarizing...pretty likely they have a made hand of some sorts, are confident their hand is likely good and are looking to stack off to any jams.

In conclusion- raise 2x preflop, 3x on 20bb is just too big unless we are definitely committed to calling off jams preflop - raise 2x, check back flop - fold the turn lead and move on. You only lost 2 BB, all the good $$ in MTTs is at the final table - so we should be looking to do all we can to get there!!

Hope this makes sense. Hope it helps. Take care!

I agree, that our preflop raise should be smaller, when we only start the hand with 20BB. With a 3X raise we lose to much, when we fold to a 3-bet, so I would only use this size for value against bad players, who call to much and dont pay attention to bet sizes, and I would only do it with hands, that I want to stack off. A9 is not such a hand, so I would go smaller here.

On the flop a C-bet is a bit of a combo bet. 22-44 will likely fold, and we will also get called by some draws, we are ahead of. Also by keeping the betting lead we can often choose to check back the turn, so that we get to see all cards for the price of one bet.

I think, C-betting is slightly better overall, but checking back is certainly not terrible. It depends a lot, how we want to play this, and against a whale stack, who called us out of SB, I can certainly see the case for playing pot control. This guy has nothing to lose, so there is likely less fold equity here than normal.

As played I think, we have to call the turn bet. We showed weakness by checking the flop, and we could still have the best hand with A high. I dont like jamming the turn though. A turn jam represent very few hands, and he is going to play close to perfect by calling us with anything better than our hand while folding anything worse.
 
I

Ianmacca99

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Total posts
490
Chips
1
I guess I am going to be that guy....I disagree with all the folks telling you to cbet this flop. Here is my perspective on the hand.

The preflop raise is too big, no need to make it 3bb with a 20bb stack. We need to have a plan every time we raise - if our plan here is to raise/fold to any jams then 6k does everything that 9k will do for us and costs less. If you are committed to calling off then why not open jam?

Moving on - I like the check on the flop much better than a cbet. This board smashes the SB way more than your opening range even as wide as the button can be...if we cbet this flop and get jammed on do we really want to call it off with a straight draw and one over? We want to get our money in good...not when we are behind - so it's a shame here to get check-raised when we have a good draw and an Ace.

The check back on the flop will allow us to realize our equity in the hand without being check raised on the flop and over committing to a spot that you are likely beaten on and looking to suckout to win the hand...again, we want to be getting it in when we have the best of it...not when we are behind! What better hands can we get to fold by cbetting this flop? Better Aces? They shouldve all 3bet us preflop unless they are super passive. Are 66s even folding this flop to one bet? So I think given this board we are only getting called by a ton of hands that are better than ours while hands we beat will still likely be beaten on the turn. Plus when we do cbet here and get called we only have one of two turn options - we either give up on the hand, or we shove and are likely getting called by straights, 10s, and or maybe even some sticky 8s and annnny 1 pair + straight draw combos. I would elect to cbet this board if one card was a K or maybe even a Q - but since that's not the case I would check this board back ALOT. We still potentially have the best hand here quite a bit and as I have said plenty already - it's a shame to open the door for us to be pushed off our equity on the flop.

So that all said lol - anyhow, when the flop goes check-check and our opponent leads the turn at best we have approximately 22% to win the hand vs a random range - that is, IF we are indeed behind in the hand - also by leading the turn our opponent allows us to fold cheaply - if they had J9 here they should be checking alot or betting small to try and induce bluffs from our ranges and get calls from draws and sticky Ace high combos. Betting pot here is pretty polarizing...pretty likely they have a made hand of some sorts, are confident their hand is likely good and are looking to stack off to any jams.

In conclusion- raise 2x preflop, 3x on 20bb is just too big unless we are definitely committed to calling off jams preflop - raise 2x, check back flop - fold the turn lead and move on. You only lost 2 BB, all the good $$ in MTTs is at the final table - so we should be looking to do all we can to get there!!

Hope this makes sense. Hope it helps. Take care!
Totally agree with you preflop I prefer a 2bb -2.25 raise

On the flop I'd be looking to realise equity as cheaply as possible if he shoves over your cbet how often are we in front here and we have 8 outs our overcard outs could be dead already. I don't like to play drawing especially against a shove. If we are the ones shoving I like it slightly more.
 
Top