$11 NLHE MTT: what sizing on river for value?

No Limit Holdem Tournament
7 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by WeakTight Poker Hand History Converter
Stacks:
UTG Hero (126k) 27bb
UTG+1 (83k) 18bb
MP (147k) 32bb
CO (85k) 18bb
BTN (409k) 89bb
SB (245k) 53bb
BB (96k) 21bbBlinds: 2.3k/4.6k Ante 495
Pre-Flop: (10k, 7 players) Hero is UTG K:heart: K:club:

Hero raises to 12k, 3 folds, BTN calls 12k, 1 fold, BB calls 6.9k

Flop: A:spade: 2:spade: 4:club: (40k, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 13k, BTN folds, BB calls 13k
Turn: A:diamond: (67k, 2)
BB checks, Hero checks
River: 6:club: (67k, 2)
BB checks, Hero 101488

omnom8 said:

No Limit Holdem Tournament
7 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by WeakTight Poker Hand History Converter
Stacks:
UTG Hero (126k) 27bb
UTG+1 (83k) 18bb
MP (147k) 32bb
CO (85k) 18bb
BTN (409k) 89bb
SB (245k) 53bb
BB (96k) 21bbBlinds: 2.3k/4.6k Ante 495
Pre-Flop: (10k, 7 players) Hero is UTG K♥ K♣

Hero raises to 12k, 3 folds, BTN calls 12k, 1 fold, BB calls 6.9k

Flop: A♠ 2♠ 4♣ (40k, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 13k, BTN folds, BB calls 13k
Turn: A♦ (67k, 2)
BB checks, Hero checks
River: 6♣ (67k, 2)
BB checks, Hero 101488

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I had a bunch typed out but I deleted it all and I'm just gonna go with yes, you should have bet river for value. Something in the neighborhood of 20-30K

MemphisGrind said:

I had a bunch typed out but I deleted it all and I'm just gonna go with yes, you should have bet river for value. Something in the neighborhood of 20-30K

Click to expand...

and what you think about turn ? i think there is 100% check because combo draw can check reise and we must fold very good hand on the turn. but without flushdraw and if 2 was like J or even 7 it will be 3 bets with ~1/3 sizing or also better check turn ?

A small bet is clearly complementary. The rate should be 70-80%. The rate will look like that, you have not closed anything. And on bb, a lot of hands with 6, with 4.
who can pay by putting your hand on not closing dro

levidoff said:

A small bet is clearly complementary. The rate should be 70-80%. The rate will look like that, you have not closed anything. And on bb, a lot of hands with 6, with 4.
who can pay by putting your hand on not closing dro

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the rate of what? sry dont understand you thought

bet on river 70-80%

why not allin so ?

If flop was HU I'd consider checking here sometimes, but maybe not without the Ks in our hand. I like your sizing. I like checking back the turn.

The river is a definite bet so I like that you bet, but I don't think we rep a whole lot of bluffs and I think most of our range is medium to strong value hands so I'd rather be betting closer to 60% pot rather than an overbet so that we can be called more frequently.

I definitely wouldn't be jamming though. I don't HATE betting pot, but I think going larger and larger is just asking to get heaps of folds especially at these levels.

Scourrge said:

If flop was HU I'd consider checking here sometimes, but maybe not without the Ks in our hand. I like your sizing. I like checking back the turn.

The river is a definite bet so I like that you bet, but I don't think we rep a whole lot of bluffs and I think most of our range is medium to strong value hands so I'd rather be betting closer to 60% pot rather than an overbet so that we can be called more frequently.

I definitely wouldn't be jamming though. I don't HATE betting pot, but I think going larger and larger is just asking to get heaps of folds especially at these levels.

Click to expand...

I was thinking 20-30K on river value. Do you feel you get max value at around 40K... I sized it down in my reply because I feel like we will still be folding out hands that would make a crying call at around 30% pot.. I guess my reply should have been whatever sizing you feel you can get "thin max value"???? lol I feel like Med. pocket pairs will pay off 60% but at 20-30K you will get the weird flush draws that missed like suited spade hands with a six in it. I guess either way it goes we weren't far off, and we could debate exact sizing forever but the point is the river bet needed to be for value and not over bet.

From the point of view of value, betting on the river does not make sense. BB simply does not have a hand with which he could accept even a minimum bet. Let's watch his actions. He could call preflop with any two cards to protect the blinds. After the flop with a pocket pair or A with a weak kicker, he should have decided where he was. He did not do this, however, he called the bet, which allows us to make an assumption that he has either 3 or 5 or two peaks in his hand. After the turn, you must bet slightly higher than his chance to make a straight or a flush. I will be glad to hear your opinion.

I think KK should bet that turn instead of check