TPTK vs. Flop Min-raise

2 for 1 special!!

Stacks:
DeluxeSamy with $9.95
BTN with $11.00
SB with $9.85
BB with $2.20
UTG with $7.40
UTG+1 with $18.45
MP1 with $10.45
MP2 with $10.00

Blinds: $0.00/$0.00
Site: Pokerstars
Dealt to BTN:Q♦ Q♣
Sklansky group 1
Preflop:
UTG calls [$0.10]
1 players fold.
MP1 calls [$0.10]
2 players fold.
Hero raises $0.50 to $0.60
2 players fold.
UTG calls [$0.50]
1 players folded.
Total folds this street: 6
Potsize: $1.45
Flop: J♠ J♥ 3♣
UTG: checks Hero bets [$0.80]
1 players fold.
UTG raises $0.80 to $1.60

Now, THIS player is 23/5/1.5 over 40 hands...am I just way behind in both hands?

i'm pretty sure you're still good in the first hand (it's not like he open limped 32 or JJ+, and TT would just be a cooler), so you can either call and then reevaluate turn/river, or make a really small value raise (such as a CiB) if you think he's doing with with a T9-type hand and not folding to a raise.

Alright, what about the 2nd hand? Try to get to SD as cheaply as possible?

yea i mean u might be able to get more value on the river etc but that's only if the guy doesn't try to take u to jamrock if u know what im sayin

First hand you fold...cause if I'm villain I know you didn't raise pflop with a 2 in your hand and I also know given I limp/called, you can't put me on not having a 2. If you call my raise, I'm firing a healthy bet on the turn regardless of what hits. Now if you have the nuts to call my turn bet or go over the top and put me all-in then I surrender unless of course I really do have the 2, doh!

Second hand, IMO call and try to get to SD cheap.

Dr_Dick said:

First hand you fold...cause if I'm villain I know you didn't raise pflop with a 2 in your hand and I also know given I limp/called, you can't put me on not having a 2. If you call my raise, I'm firing a healthy bet on the turn regardless of what hits. Now if you have the nuts to call my turn bet or go over the top and put me all-in then I surrender unless of course I really do have the 2, doh!

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wtf man that's so weak cbet/folding TPTK on a board like that

I think that you are still looking good on the first hand, too.
I'd put him on 10x - maybe 10J or 10Q.
Call the raise here and re-think after turn and raise him again if he doesn't show a lot of strenght - you have position.

Second hand I have a feeling you are chasing the made JJJ set or possible over-two-pair KK,AA

I think you're good on both. I'm jamming QQ there all the time. He can do this with any pocket pair or pure air. I doubt expect aggressive players to play trips aggressively, ironically enough.

Vanquish,

I'm not saying your wrong, but in the long run I'm making a ton more money as villain firing a healthy bet on the turn. I'm letting hero know what a good villain is going to do in this situation. If hero simply calls, there is no way a good villain is not leading out on the turn. So hero is not simply calling.80, our hero is going to be put to a decision.

Do you really want to stack off with a pair of T's? How many times have you been gutted? You make it sound as if the T22 flop is so simple, so rudimentary that hero should not have even posted the question. In your mind, hero should obviously get aggressive and risk his entire stack. After all, he does have a pair of tens.

I would call the flop minraise in both hands. Reevaluate villains turn action with position. They could easily be minraising here with ace high or worse pocket pairs since the flop is so dry and is unlikely to have hit you. If they put out a strong bet on the turn that is committing and you haven't improved then I think you can start to consider folding at that point. In the first hand I may even consider calling down if your opponent is really aggressive.

Dr_Dick said:

If hero simply calls, there is no way a good villain is not leading out on the turn. So hero is not simply calling.80, our hero is going to be put to a decision.

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I see what your saying, but this is 10nl and most players are not good villains. I see it all the time when aggro villains ch/minraise the flop with Ace high or 66 on dry paired flops. Then thier OOP on the turn, in a pot that is getting big, then they don't know how to bet properly on the turn. They don't know if thier betting for value or to put pressure on thier opponent to fold a better hand and end up making mistakes. So they might minraise you .80 on the flop, then the turn blanks and they still just have ace high or some pocket pair and they start second guessing themselves. They might think they have the best hand but thier not sure anymore, so then they remember donk school and think small hand small pot and bet another .80 on the turn.

Dr_Dick said:

Do you really want to stack off with a pair of T's?

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of course we do. not playing for stacks on this board at 10nl is criminal. The only caveat would be if villain is 100/10/0.2 or 4/0/2 or something. But that's so rare we shouldn't care.

We stack off when we have villain's range crushed.

Dr_Dick said:

Do you really want to stack off with a pair of T's? How many times have you been gutted? You make it sound as if the T22 flop is so simple, so rudimentary that hero should not have even posted the question. In your mind, hero should obviously get aggressive and risk his entire stack. After all, he does have a pair of tens.

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stop putting words in my mouth. not getting it on this board is a fundamental mistake, and if you're not willing to get it in on a T22 board at 10nl with AT against one villain maybe you shouldn't be playing AT in the first place

Yea, the A10s was a steal attempt and ended up getting a good flop for my hand...just didn't know if stacking here was standard.

On the first one, I've got to believe A/10 is good. And I agree with Dick, If he's bluffing here he's going to fire big on turn. Or if he has a weaker 10 himself he has to think its good. The safe route would be to just pop it now. But with a board that dry I think the profitable play here would be to just call and let him fire again, don't be a sis go for gusto =). On the second example, his limp/call preflop points towards an AJ or maybe even like a QJ suited. But I don't know many players (well, competent players that is) that would raise on that flop w/ the J. There aren't many hands that could pay you off. It may be a losing call, but I think I have to make it.