nl$50 FR, flop nuts mulitway vs super passive fish (Deep)

Posting this hand from memory, I'm just a little bored at work. Basically this table is fish infested, there is 19 now on the wait list. Effecive stacks are ~180bb.

UTG is new to the table, SB is a super passive fish at 90/0/0 over 150 or so hands, and has called down with all sorts of crap, has never raised. My image is super strong, I have won a few stacks with flopped sets over the last 30 or so hands. I have been playing 15/12 (ish)

UTG ($50) raises to $1.50
MP2 ($75) calls $1.50
Folds to hero ($150) on the button with [6s] [7s] I call.
SB our super fish ($90) calls.
BB folds.

Pot ($6,50)

Flop [5s] [4s] [3h]

UTG checks
MP 2 checks
Hero bets $4.50
SB, clicks back and min-raises.

Folded back to me and I errrrr shove ???? Or does anyone think that I'm losing value ?

If ive read this correctly which i think i have, it would take a huge outdraw to currently beat your hand, the job you have ahead of you is now extracting as much as you possibly can maybe a nice raise instead of an all in, might possibly scare him away this time.

Min-raise and call shove? shoving is fine too.

Against a passive 90/0/0, raising is a must, and i like fishy lines against fishes,

I agree with Belgo, CiB. He'll shove with almost everything (or re re min-raise).

^ agree with above

I'd make it like $33. I don't like re clicking it back coz sometimes they'll get freaked out and flat and you'll have hell trying to get stacks in. Shoving is probably ok i just think that you might scare some of his range off, whereas i don't think villain can ever fold anything for another $25 and then you can stick it in on the turn and again there is no way he'd fold turn when there is <psb left. I also think making it like $33 will induce alot more shoves than clicking it back coz villain will just figure that in order to call that much he's committed anyways, whereas clicking it back is going to get a flat from the weaker portion of villain's range sometimes. Only click this back vs a manaic who will shove garbage overtop (ie. complete opposite of villian) - the only point of clicking it back is to induce and you aren't inducing anything from this type of player ever.

so this is the first time in 150 hands villain has hit raise having played 90% of hands?

lol i shove and fully expect to be called.

Dorkus Malorkus said:

so this is the first time in 150 hands villain has hit raise having played 90% of hands?

lol i shove and fully expect to be called.

Click to expand...

I agree with this. Villian probably played AA terrible preflop here and will now pay the price.

feitr said:

I'd make it like $33. I don't like re clicking it back coz sometimes they'll get freaked out and flat and you'll have hell trying to get stacks in. Shoving is probably ok i just think that you might scare some of his range off, whereas i don't think villain can ever fold anything for another $25 and then you can stick it in on the turn and again there is no way he'd fold turn when there is <psb left. I also think making it like $33 will induce alot more shoves than clicking it back coz villain will just figure that in order to call that much he's committed anyways, whereas clicking it back is going to get a flat from the weaker portion of villain's range sometimes. Only click this back vs a manaic who will shove garbage overtop (ie. complete opposite of villian) - the only point of clicking it back is to induce and you aren't inducing anything from this type of player ever.

Click to expand...

+1!!!!!!! clicking it back is definitely pretty bad here imo. he obviously has something he likes but he's going to flat the little raise a lot more often than some of you seem to think. you're not inducing anything, as feitr said, particularly because his range is clearly weighted toward hands that don't need to be induced, we just need to build a pot with them before something kills our action.

i think it's close between this and just shoving though. i might shove sometimes just cause you still get looked up so often and you don't give him the chance to flat and let a bad turn kill things. either is way better than a tiny reraise

Oh I hate clicking back a lot.

I'm not sure what we achieve by making it $33 either that shoving wont do better. I was kinda stuck between raising to $30-$35 or shoving, and I really didnt want him to make a stupid fish fold if a king hit the river and he haz 1010.

I shoved, he snap called.

yea i think shoving is fine i just think that sometimes you will get a fold from the worse end of his range by shoving and i don't think you have to be worried about this guy folding anything on the turn with only a psb left since he is after all a calling station not a weak tighty. I guess if a 2 or something comes tho it could be bad (unless he has AA or something) and a 6 but almost any other card a guy who calls down this bad isn't going to fold anything and he probably won't fold to those either. Do tend to agree that he isn't ever going to fold anything to a shove however.

Idk sometimes i'm just suprised and shove vs a loose passive coz i figure he is never folding and somehow he does end up doing so when i'm almost positive he never could have folded to 2 smaller bets. Shoving probably does >> making it 30 something tho.

fwiw i'm a HUGE fan of massively overshoving rivers when i think a fish probably has a weak 2 pair sort of hand coz they are just horrible at folding 2 pair+ even tho you would never bluff them there in a million years. I'll see if i can find a hand that shows just how horrific these guys can call down. Ok, like how bad can you possibly be to justify calling this off :S So yea huge shoves are definitely the way to go in alot of cases.

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HAND #1
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party poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 2 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker
BB: $462.35 (231.2 bb)
Hero (SB): $215.08 (107.5 bb)
Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with A:diamond: T:spade:
Hero raises to $6, BB calls $4
Flop: ($12) 7:heart: J:diamond: 6:spade: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks
Turn: ($12) K:club: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks
River: ($12) Q:diamond: (2 players)
BB bets $10, Hero raises to $209.08 and is all-in, BB calls $199.08
Results:[spoil] $430.16 pot ($0.50 rake)
BB showed 6:club: K:heart: (two pairs, Kings and Sixes) and lost (-$215.08 net)
Hero showed A:diamond: T:spade: (a straight, Ten to Ace) and won $429.66 ($214.58 net)
[/spoil]