$5 NLHE Full Ring: Trips OOP on the river... Value?

T

Tublecain

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$5 NL HE Full Ring: Trips OOP on the river... Value?

Context: I've been playing this guy for a while, and have seen him steal a lot from the BTN and CO. I have already caught him red handed a few times by 3betting and forcing a fold (usually I'm holding suited connectors, small pocket pairs, or even marginal hands like KJ or QT). He seems like a smart player, so on this occasion I decide to try and be a little tricky and just smooth call OOP with 65s (not something I usually do, but I decide to change it up a little).

I get very lucky and land trips on the flop. Since my usual MO is to lead out after 3 betting, I figure to really change my pace by checking, planning to call any bet here with my trips (perhaps he'll think I'm chasing a flush). Because he indeed bets, I don't figure him for a flush draw at this point, and I call pretending that's what I'm drawing to.

The turn is a blank, and I check again, hoping to get him to bet again. To my delight he does make a sizable bet, and again I take a little bit of time before I flat call, pretending that I'm now obsessed with catching my flush; (please tell me if you think perhaps I should have raised here, faking a semibluff...).

Finally the river comes a King, which could be a scare card, or a great card for me, depending on if villain is holding a K. From the action in the hand, I'm guessing that he's either holding overcards like AT-AK, or perhaps something like KJ or QJ, or has possibly paired a nine. Given that he might already be scared by the K, or could very well have just landed a big pair, what do you recommend here: should I bet the river and try to actively extract chips from the villain, or given the hand until now should I check and try to induce one final bluff/value bet (him thinking that I missed my flush)? Many thanks for your advice, hand is below:

Code: 
[b]Table Information[/b]
Seat: 1 Player 1 ($1.95)
Seat: 2 Player 2 ($6.91)
Seat: 3 Player 3 ($0.93)
Seat: 4 Player 4 ($4.54)
Seat: 5 Player 5 ($4)
Seat: 6 Player 6 ($3.27) Dealer
Seat: 7 Player 7 ($4.88) Small Blind
Seat: 8 [color=Red]Hero[/color] ($6.61) Big Blind
Seat: 9 Player 9 ($1.24)
Dealt to [color=Red]Hero[/color]
[img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/6S.png[/img] [img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/5S.png[/img] 

[b]Preflop[/b] (Pot:0.07)
[i]FOLD[/i] Player 9 
[i]FOLD[/i] Player 1 
[i]FOLD[/i] Player 2 
[i]FOLD[/i] Player 3 
[i]FOLD[/i] Player 4 
[i]RAISE[/i] Player 6 $0.15
[i]FOLD[/i] Player 7 
[i]CALL[/i] [color=Red]Hero[/color]$0.1

[b]Flop[/b](Pot: $0.32)
[img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/9C.png[/img] [img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/6C.png[/img] [img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/6H.png[/img] 

[i]CHECK[/i] [color=Red]Hero[/color]
[i]BET[/i] Player 6 $0.25
[i]CALL[/i] [color=Red]Hero[/color]$0.25

[b]Turn[/b](Pot: $0.82)
[img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/9C.png[/img] [img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/6C.png[/img] [img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/6H.png[/img] [img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/4H.png[/img] 

[i]CHECK[/i] [color=Red]Hero[/color]
[i]BET[/i] Player 6 $0.82
[i]CALL[/i] [color=Red]Hero[/color]$0.82

[b]River[/b](Pot: $2.46)
[img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/9C.png[/img] [img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/6C.png[/img] [img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/6H.png[/img] [img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/4H.png[/img] [img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/KS.png[/img] 

[i]??????[/i] [color=Red]Hero[/color]
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

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First of all, 65s is very unlikely to show a profit OOP, even as a "mix-it-up" sort of hand. I understand the willingness to play these hands, but withot position they lose way too much value to pull off, especially against someone who has a wide range.

Anyway, you should probably check/raise this flop (or bet/3-bet) because it's such a draw heavy board. You're not doing this solely because you're afraid to be outdrawn, but because that's how you want to play your draws, too. If you want to mix it up, you need your opponents to think you can have monsters on these boards, not just draws. Would you check/call with a flushdraw? If you would, you should reconsider that line, too.

In short, play your trips fast. He might have a draw and will pay you off and he might also think YOU have a draw, and pay you off. If he has T9, for instance, would he fold to a check/raise on the flop? How do you think he'd react with T9 on a club turn? Or an overcard on the turn? Etc. Your line (checking twice) wins the most money from trash but the trash won't call a turn check/raise anyway and on a flop like this there are a LOT of medium-strength hands in his range (top pairs, pocket pairs and draws) that will probably be at the very least hesitant to fold to a flop check/raise.
 
T

Tublecain

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Thanks so much for taking the time to look at one of my posts again FP! I can immediately see the sense in your analysis, and I think you are absolutely right. In fact, I just wrote in my own response to another player's hand history yesterday how bad of an idea it was to flat/call OOP with a marginal hand! I find it very interesting that we'll often forget our own advice when we're in the thick of the game.

In any case, it drives home the notion I already had that one of my leaks is that I'll play my big hand slow more often than I should; I can see in hindsight that doing so postflop OOP is particularly a losing proposition. I guess I felt like I mentioned that I had been so aggressive against this player, I figured I'd slow it down and see if I could get him to bite; but as usual I wasn't thinking all that carefully about what he might actually have and what he'd be willing to bluff/call with. It's something that am beginning to get into the habit of doing, but will still misstep every once in a while.

Thanks again FP, I always take your advice to heart, and try to incorporate it into my game as best as I can (for example, I now have made it a rule not to call a 3bet OOP (either be willing to 4 bet, or just fold). And it has served me quite well! I'll be sure to take this one into account as well :)

Best of luck out there, T.
 
ljove

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It is hard to believe that you are against A6 or any hand with 6 and card higher then 5.I think you got him.You should bet for value here.
 
Sysvr4

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F Paulsson said:
First of all, 65s is very unlikely to show a profit OOP, even as a "mix-it-up" sort of hand. I understand the willingness to play these hands, but withot position they lose way too much value to pull off, especially against someone who has a wide range.
Click to expand...

In general I agree, but I think as a defense against a steal hand, it's a reasonable call. You do put yourself in the position of making some pretty tough decisions with marginal hands later, but as long as you're HU, willing to play those marginal hands aggressively, and know when to call it quits, I don't mind the call.

The rest of the hand depends a lot on context. On one hand, I'm less fearful of draws hitting when HU. On the other hand, I'd routinely c/r a blind stealer with air here just to keep things on an even footing. Keep in mind that people tend to play much better pre-flop than after the flop, so I much prefer a c/r with nothing on the flop than a 3-bet with nothing PF.

Given a setup like that, I would without question c/r this flop and expect him to play back at me. This is one of those hands where you extract a lot of value by virtue of being a liberal defender earlier on. And the only way to do that is to play it full steam ahead on every street.

Now, if you're not willing or able to defend your blind with marginal hands, don't. But as a matter of course, it's a skill you should practice and develop.
 
T

Tublecain

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Thanks for the advice on playing trips fast when I hit, unless there's some obvious way in which the villain's range dominates me. Since the player had bet every street, I figured he maybe had AK, or a 9 and would figure me for a missed draw, and bet again on the river. I checked the river, but he checked behind and I missed out on some value. You learn something every day! Thanks again for the advice, and best of luck out there!

T.
 
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