$5 NLHE 6-max: KKs vs. Turn Shove when Flush Draw Completes

Hi Cash Games People,

I was playing 5NL on ignition. I sat down at the table and played nothing for the first 4 hands until I find myself in MP with KcKd. I RFI to 3BB, the CO calls and the BB calls. The main villain in this hand is the CO. All I know about him is that he has limped preflop twice and called an isoraise both times in a sample size of 4 hands. So maybe he's weak passive? But I have no idea, I just sat down.

Anyway, the flop comes QcJh7h, so a pretty connected/wet/draw heavy board. BB checks to me and I have a solid hand, an overpair to this board, so I bet for value, a little more than 3/4 pot. CO calls and the BB folds. The Turn comes the 3h which completes the flush draw and it scares me a little bit, so I check (not sure if I should or not), and villain then shoves all in for the remaining 30BB in his stack, about a 1.25x pot bet. Now it should be worth mentioning that the player in the CO had a starting stack of about 40BB, and I didn't do a good job of recognizing that before the start of the hand, so maybe I should have put out a different bet sizing on the flop? But regardless, now I'm in an interesting spot.

I time bank for quite a long time trying to think of what hands my opponent could be doing this with that beat us and what hands he might be doing this with that are bluffs/we beat. The hands that beat us that he might have are AhQh, AhTh, maybe Ah9/8h, KhQh, QhTh, Th9h, 9h8h, maybe 7h6h, JJ, 77, 33, QJ. I would think he 3bets AA, sometimes AQ, often QQ, sometimes JJ so JJ and AQ might even be a little more rare. And what hands might he do this with that we beat? Maybe AQ, KQ, QT, AJ with a heart, JT with a heart, maybe 98 with the OESD, maybe 77-99s with a heart as a bluff, maybe Jx as a bluff to rep the flush. Maybe he's just over valuing a normal pair? Etc. etc.

So anyway this is my question: do I fold here? Or do I call? Also, should I have checked on the turn? Or should I have Cbetted and why/why not? Lastly, do you like my bet sizing on the flop? I can comment on this thread later with my decision if you guys want. Let me know what you think and whether or not you need any more details.


iPoker - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 100 BB
UTG: 138 BB (VPIP: 60.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
Hero (MP): 100.6 BB
CO: 40.6 BB (VPIP: 60.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
BTN: 105.4 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 5)
SB: 54.4 BB (VPIP: 60.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K:club: K:diamond:

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, CO calls 3 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.4 BB, 3 players) Q:club: J:heart: 7:heart:
BB checks, Hero bets 7.4 BB, CO calls 7.4 BB, fold

Turn: (24.2 BB, 2 players) 3:heart:
Hero checks, CO bets 30.2 BB

Need to bet that turn. I would go 15 BB, against his 30BB stack that makes it jam-or-fold for him. If he jams, you are probably beat, but it is still less to call if you think he is ever bluffing here. When you check on a card that makes a draw, he senses weakness and exploits it. I could see him doing this with basically anything. His stack size make it so that you have to honor this as a real bet as well, so it is a pretty good bluff spot.


Honestly, as played I would just let him have it unless I was super deep and could afford to pay 30bb to gain info on him.

I think we need some better stack management here against this short stack opponent. Preflop is obviously fine. But on the flop I'd already be trying to figure out what the pot will be if I bet and am called at a few different sizes, and determine what that means for me and what I'm trying to accomplish. I probably end up going substantially smaller, or a bit bigger to set up turn jams.

As played, I totally get the check on the turn, but we'd have an easier time knowing whether we want to do this if we have either less than a pot size bet behind, or more like 2-3 pot size bets behind.

As played, there's only a bit over pot to play for effective, and he can easily be jamming most of his Qx combos thinking we usually have worse now. He can also have semibluffs like T9, KT, AT, etc, many of them with a heart.

The other factor is that any two pair or set combinations are VERY likely to put a raise in on this flop due to how wet and connected it is. So I feel that we ONLY lose to flushes here, and particularly the higher flushes (like the nut flush) may well bet smaller a good portion of the time here. I'm calling.

Scourrge said:

I think we need some better stack management here against this short stack opponent. Preflop is obviously fine. But on the flop I'd already be trying to figure out what the pot will be if I bet and am called at a few different sizes, and determine what that means for me and what I'm trying to accomplish. I probably end up going substantially smaller, or a bit bigger to set up turn jams.

As played, I totally get the check on the turn, but we'd have an easier time knowing whether we want to do this if we have either less than a pot size bet behind, or more like 2-3 pot size bets behind.

As played, there's only a bit over pot to play for effective, and he can easily be jamming most of his Qx combos thinking we usually have worse now. He can also have semibluffs like T9, KT, AT, etc, many of them with a heart.

The other factor is that any two pair or set combinations are VERY likely to put a raise in on this flop due to how wet and connected it is. So I feel that we ONLY lose to flushes here, and particularly the higher flushes (like the nut flush) may well bet smaller a good portion of the time here. I'm calling.

Click to expand...

Huh, that's interesting I wouldn't have thought about the fact that 2-pair combos or sets would have likely raised on the flop. I was considering them just as likely to be in my villains range as like different Qx combos and flush draws etc. But yeah overall I probably would have put out like a half or 2/3s pot sized bet on the flop and then another like 1/2 pot sized bet on the turn and maybe get away if he shoves, but probably not since there wouldn't be too much of his stack behind.

K of hearts call. this situation call too
so many straight draw with heart willl be showing this turn

It's not a great spot obviously but it's definitely a call. It would be better if we had the Kh blocker but regardless Kings are close to the top of our range when check turn.
Our hand is completely underrepped and has to be a call. It's also 5nl, nearly any hand is possible in this spot. Just call and be happy with what the outcome is.

Your check on the turn gave villain the opportunity to bluff, while it did not give you any information.
This way you have lost control of the pot size till all-or-nothing bingo.

Std call. And generally, bet smaller on the flop so you can setup a near half sized pot bet/call on the turn.