$200 NLHE Full Ring: Overpair vs deep-stacked LAGtard

This was a $1/$2 live game at the casino. MP1 is a middle-aged man who is basically a passive fish. MP2 is a very loose-aggressive young guy (a LAGtard). He brags about being an online player and is definitely capable of bluff squeezing, 3betting light, raising river bets with complete air, etc. He has pulled a few moves recently and been caught out.

Passive fish (MP1) has $80
LAGtard (MP2) has $500
Hero (CO) has $472

Hero is dealt Ah Ad

SB posts $1
BB posts $2
UTG folds
UTG+1 folds
UTG+2 folds
Passive fish (MP1) calls $2
LAGtard (MP2) calls $2
Hero (CO) raises to $12
BTN folds
SB folds
BB folds
Passive fish calls $10
LAGtard calls $10

$36 in pot
Flop shows Ts 8c 3s

Passive fish checks
LAGtard checks
Hero bets $25
Passive fish calls $25
LAGtard raises to $100
Hero shoves ALL-IN for $460

What do you think of the way hero played this hand?

Fine, I play the same.

I can't say I'm in love with it, your 200bbs+ deep if you get called here your in very bad shape. I will say it's a rough spot though. 100bbs I would be fine with it 200+ may be a bit of an overplay, you fold out all his bluffs and only had that beat you/hands with a ton of equity vs you are going to continue.

What would you recommend instead? Flat-call the $100 raise? Or even fold the flop?

Probably flat, it definitely isn't an easy spot, you just get rid of all his bluffs by shoving here and your in terrible shape if you get snapped. This is definitely villain dependent and can easily fold AA to some opponents on the flop. If you say villain has been getting caught bluffing, to me if I was that villain I would adjust and not bluff as much, until I think a spot I can get away with it, him 4xing your bet with another opponent in the hand I really don't think he is flat out bluffing you, a lot of combo draws, but hands that have you in not good shape as well.

Yeah i'm not a fan of the shove, the lagtard sounds like me but it isn't

He will have a set of 8s or Ts and he's lined you up and you took the bait.

..............

I generally bet $16 at crown it seems to be the sweet spot to go headsup

Pretty standard to just call here w/ position. Over shove is a bit of a reach this deep. Call and use position, to keep his bluffing semi-bluffing range in.

A risky flop, but You have the top pair. It's well played. Probably the player have a j with A kicker

Would definately rule Trip 8 and Trip 10 out of the range since the LAGtard limped in. I'd put him on T8 suited or Pocket 3s at worst (depending how he played in the past with low pocket pairs). So I'd honestly flat call, to find out the next action.

dabs its live ppl play diff u cant rule out 10s or 8s

Being so deep stacked, can't say I love the play. If he's loose aggressive, just flat knowing he's likely to continue this line regardless of what happens with the board- agressive betting. You'll get the max out of him. Occasionally he'll be on a flush draw, let him barrel away or if he checks the turn, price him out to chase.

Pre-flop: Both players can obviously a wide and weak range here, weighted towards suited connectors, small pairs and weaker suited Broadways. Good raise, should be enough to buy position and take control of the hand while getting called by at least one opponent often.


Flop: Your bet is good, and when MP1 calls, we think he has Tx, 8x or a draw. Now, the LAGtard raises, which isn't particularly worrying. We're still ahead of his range.
Re-raising is rarely a good option against these players. Against LAG players, the trick is to use their own aggression against them. Even though we often have the best hand here, we should just flat because we're going to keep his bluffs in his range by doing that. If you raise, you allow him to play perfectly by folding when he's behind and continuing when he has you almost drawing dead. We flat here and plan to call down on a safe board. If the turn is a spade, it's going to be very close and tough, but personally I'm folding if the turn is a spade. If not we should be happy to call down against this type of player.


EDIT: If you want to learn how to deal with these situations really well, there's a fantastic app I use called 'Insta Poker' put together by pro's (Esfandiari, Huck Seed, Jonathan Little, Matt Berkey). Basically, you buy hand packs which give you a scenario, which you play through and then you get advice on how you could have played it better. The 'How to Combat Aggression' pack deals with situations like this and really helped me. I think it's about £2-£3, definitely worth it.

I think we can. I play mostly live. Seeing as villain is a LAG I'd expect him to raise 88 or TT very often here.

I think the range you've assigned him is significantly too tight considering his LAG tendencies. I think he can have flush draws, straight draws, TPGK+, some total air in addition to what you've mentioned. We really have to play the player in this situation and make calls we wouldn't even consider against a normal player.
I play mostly live and experience these LAGtards a lot (because I try to play late at night when people are leaving nigtclubs, and they're all LAGtards because of the drink) and ant band better than 2nd pair is often the nuts against these guys (OK, little exaggeration, but you get the point). They bluff way more than it might seem and sometimes they even bluff without anything to back it up!

It's risky.. i don't know what to say...

Poker is a game of calculated risk. From my experience, we're going to run into a hand we beat about 75% of the time here (if we call and he stacks the turn) and we'll be beat the other 25%. Over the long run calling down here is going to show oodles of profit.

I guess we don't know what time of day or night this is??? Because even tags and lags get into limp (zombie mode) as the night progresses

and when I was playing live a lot when I first started out I use to fall into the trap and become one of the zombies haha. Wasn't a game of cards but a game of who could stay awake the longest haha.

Haha, I know what you mean. I still would expect to almost never see 88 or TT here though.

Yea pretty much this ^^


Stop being a fish.

I doubt the villain ever limp-calls with 88 or TT. He's far too aggressive for that. He'd probably even 3bet TT if he had the chance. It's only really 33, T8 and a bunch of draws. But what kind of draws does a LAGtard check-raise with? If he's raising all of his flush draws and OESD's, then it should be profitable to shove the flop, since there are dozens of combos of draws. And do we expect him to only show up with T8s or do we expect T8o to be in his range? Because if it's just 33 and T8s then that's only 5 combos that have us crushed, which isn't much.

Sorry nit-man.

Agree with a lot of this. If we shove the flop he can still get away from weaker draws though and we fold out his pure air. Better to call and let him barrel it off with little equity I think?

So let's say I flat-call the flop raise... what's my plan for the turn? If the turn is a brick and he bets $200, do I jam the rest in? What if the turn is a spade, a 7, a Q or an 8 and he bets big? What do I do if the villain checks the turn?

My plan for the turn would be (assuming he makes another bet and basically pot commits himself with any draw) to shove over the top on any brick turn and be very happy.
On a 7,Q or 8, since they don't complete many of his possible draws, we have much the same plan although we're no longer ecstatic about the situation. We should be comfortably ahead of his range though.
Facing a big bet on a spade turn i probably find a fold seeing as there are a lot more combos of his draws completed by that card than by either a 7,8 or Q.

It feels rough playing LAGtards, and you often have to make brave decisions. That's how these guys play, they out maximum pressure on you and try to get you to fold your hand. It's not generally a good strategy in poker, but playing LAGtards I become very passive and let them bluff stacks off, and I get sticky with hands I would snap fold against other guys. That's just the best way to beat them. Sure, every so often they'll have a hand and you'll feel like a muppet for calling down with 2nd pair or some trash, but more often than not you'll catch them doing something silly without a real hand!

This depends exclusively on your ability to read your opponent and his tendencies. There are just as many situations where he's willing to go all in with a draw as there are that he has air. As somebody who's recently been experimenting with LAG style play, I can say with certainty this is exactly how to play a flopped set. You'll get some nonbelievers for high prices when you play the nuts directly like the nuts and you've been bluffing before. There is no right answer here. I like the call and re-evalutate suggestions only. It's even possible to fold this in some scenarios if you know your opponent well enough.

Results:
LAGtard calls with T8o (top 2 pairs) and ships a 1k pot.

Also, I have a confession to make: I was the LAGtard villain, not the hero. I was just wondering whether I could've played it any differently if our roles were reversed. So the general consensus seems to be to flat-call the flop raise and then shove all 'safe' turn cards?

Difficult to talk in a limit which never played, but I think wrong shove flop too ... you will not be paid by many hands that wins, even for a LAG, if it is regular ...

Looks like the right thing to do in my eyes, folding in that spot would be a joke with AA, although i am curious to how the hand played out.