$20 NLHE 6-max: Another TPTK scenario

Only a few hands with villian, seemed to be playing looser but nothing of note

Absolute - $0+0 Tournament (#0) - Blinds: 0.05/0.10 No Limit Hold'em (6 players)
Absolute Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com
SB: $15.28
BB: $12.99
UTG: $4.90
MP Hero: $6.80
CO: $19.01
BTN: $8.32
Pre-flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP and dealt
UTG calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.40, 4 folds, UTG calls $0.30
Flop: ($0.95) (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.95, UTG calls $0.95
Turn: ($2.85) (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $2.85, UTG calls $2.85
River: ($8.55)
Sorry, my mistake on cutting off hand but UTG shoves river with remaining .85$

I'm assuming a river call is in order here, but how could i have played this better? im also going to assume that the pot sized bet on the turn was clearly incorrect as we want to keep a small pot with weaker hands like tptk? and third, i know i was shortstacking
what to do on river?

I think your big mistake here was playing on absolute

Hey deuces,

This is a board where I'd rarely cBet the flop to be honest and go with a delayed cBet on the turn.

As played, I would almost always check behind the turn and get to a cheapish showdown. If checked to me on the river, I again most likely check behind or make a 1/2 pot-sized value bet and have to fold to a shove.

JMcCabe said:

Hey deuces,

This is a board where I'd rarely cBet the flop to be honest and go with a delayed cBet on the turn.

.

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what. Definitely cbet the flop, we want to charge gut shots and are probably getting called by worse aces and some queens. I think you played it fine but i probably bet less on the turn to not scare him off. Snap call river shove obv

JMcCabe said:

Hey deuces,

This is a board where I'd rarely cBet the flop to be honest and go with a delayed cBet on the turn.

As played, I would almost always check behind the turn and get to a cheapish showdown. If checked to me on the river, I again most likely check behind or make a 1/2 pot-sized value bet and have to fold to a shove.

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We're 50bb deep and have TPTK if we're afraid of getting "stacks" in here wtf are we playing for?

thanks everyone,

how you doing jmccabe? and why would you wait and delay the cbet?

gomez...yea, i guess this was more about how to play it than about what to do at the river haha

Not too shabby, though I'm super busy these day.

I think I covered this in another thread where I talked about flopping TPTK with AK on a board that's definitely not draw heavy.

My goal is to get 2 streets of value, though would be willing to stack off against certain opponents (as you said it's only 50BB). The best way to get 2 streets of value from weaker hands and get to showdown more often is by using a delayed cBet. I'm not really worrid about getting sucked out on (less than 20% chance against a normal range).

Cbetting this flop only bloats the pot in what is basically a WA/WB situation.

JMcCabe said:

Not too shabby, though I'm super busy these day.

I think I covered this in another thread where I talked about flopping TPTK with AK on a board that's definitely not draw heavy.

My goal is to get 2 streets of value, though would be willing to stack off against certain opponents (as you said it's only 50BB). The best way to get 2 streets of value from weaker hands and get to showdown more often is by using a delayed cBet. I'm not really worrid about getting sucked out on (less than 20% chance against a normal range).

Cbetting this flop only bloats the pot in what is basically a WA/WB situation.

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I disagree completely. There are tons of broadway/Ax hands in his range and he's not folding any of them. Bet the flop for value.

Fair enough.

I don't usually put 50BB in the middle every time I have TPTK. I try to get 2 streets of value and get to showdown as often as possible, as I'm usually ahead and not worried about getting sucked out on.

The broadway/Ax hands will also call a turn cbet, or bet themselves, and you'll usually get a river bet paid off as well (or again they bet themselves).

However, weaker Qx hands will also call 2 streets of value, thinking they have showdown value, after you check behind on the flop.

If you're happy getting 50BBs in with TPTK, fair enough, but cBetting can put you to tougher decisions if/when he floats flop and leads big or check-raise shoves the turn.

But then again, I think we've learned you and I play very different styles.

2 pot sized bets in this spot is like 42bb so getting 50bb in really isn't much difference so I assume you'd be betting much smaller for your 2 streets of value?

i don't understand the question? what to do on this river? and he shoves his remaining 85c on the river? and the pot is 8.55$?

is this a joke?

read my post under...i titled this wrong haha i meant to ask the play of the hand overall, not the river

2 pot sized bets in this spot is like 42bb so getting 50bb in really isn't much difference so I assume you'd be betting much smaller for your 2 streets of value?

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That's right. 1/2 to 3/4 pot-sized bets, usually around 2/3 pot. Though I'm willing to call pot-sized bets depending on the villian, especially over aggressive types that will be looking to bluff me off what they believe to be KK, KQ or JJ.

Again, imo, cBetting a fairly dry flop with TPTK usually results in:

- winning a small pot because your opponent folds
- getting 1 street of value against Qx, pp, or Ax hands you beat, and occationally getting a 2nd street of value from Ax (though definitely not pot-sized bets)
- stacking a fishy player with a weaker A
- losing a big pot to non-fish players

Using a delayed cBet or calling in position on the turn allows you to:
- get to showdown more often with what is usually the best hand
- extract 2 streets of value against Qx, pp, Ax hands we beat, broadway hands, and random bluffs from our opponent, since we showed weakness on the flop
- minimize losses in hands where we are way behind (AQ, A3s, 33, etc)

Again, I say I rarely cBet this flop, though I will occasionally to balance my cBetting range. If I always check with showdown value and cBet when I miss, that's obviously exploitable.

I just think that in this kind of a TPTK situation, you're better off in the long run extracting value through check-calling turn/river, or betting for value IP on the turn/river, than you are cBetting the flop.

JMcCabe said:

- stacking a fishy player with a weaker A

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this is 10nl...

everyone is a fish

jk but seriously this is what we are getting a lot of the time.

this is 10nl...

everyone is a fish

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That's what everyone keeps telling me. I haven't played NL10 in about 6 years, so I'm not really up to date.

At those lower limits, I understand it's very profitable to just get it in, especially with 50BB effective stacks, with TPTK. At higher stakes, it definitely isn't.