$2 NLHE 6-max: Set Mining with middle Pair

Hi Guys,

Would love to hear what you thing of the replay below. Should I have raised the 77(s) from the beginning? Or did I play it correctly?

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/6qdlkUc

Preflop I like the flat but you've folded on the flop to a single bet. Sure you could of been behind but think you've got to call there how much of his range includes a 10 or an 8 think he is cbetting at a high frequency if he has connected or not. I'd call there and play some turns

Preflop i like your play, but on the flop you've folded to a single bet your opponent c-bet, i like to make a call then decide on the turn what you do depending on the action of the opponent.

Thanks dornyl and Ian.
Indeed I got scared off by the 8 and 10 on the flop. Interesting that you both would have played it the same way and called his raise. thanks again.

In general don't limp, and especially not with a pocket pair. Also flatting BB's raise is basically just torching money, if a pot goes the the flop the client takes rake, so automatically in a $0.18 pot $0.01 or more than 5% of the pot has gone to rake. Also the player in the SB over called your limp so you're not at risk of getting 3 bet by him and have to give up the equity you have with your pocket pair much lighter than you would have to a 3 bet from the BB had you opened.

Generally "set mining" is when you call a 3 bet in position after opening so you're able to realize the equity in both your pocket pair and when you hit trips by being in position against villain, while you maintained position in this hand, by limp flatting you gave up a significant amount of equity because you didn't filter opponents hands.

He could be betting into you here with something like QJo, A5s and you had to fold all your equity. If you had opened for 3 or 3.5 bbs even if you had been 3 bet you can still setmine in position and given how this flop doesn't really hit villains 3 betting range that well you would have the option of raising the flop to try and fold out his bluffs or peel his flop bet and see if he shuts down on later streets.

As played the flop fold was the right play because calling would be compounding a mistake, but you we're probably ahead which highlights the importance of you being the one doing the betting and taking advantage of being in position

It is basically never correct to limp into the pot, unless other players have limped already, and/or its a game with antes. This was a cash game without antes, and then you should always raise or fold, when nobody has entered the pot ahead of you.

This is a pretty fundamental thing, so I am a little surpriced, two forum members tell you, that limping is correct here. 6-max NLH is solved to such an extend now, that this is not really up for debate, and everyone can find the answer by reading strategy articles etc.

If you are the aggressor preflop, then Villain probably check to you on the flop, and on this board I would check back and take a free turn card. At least this gives you one more shot of making your set or perhaps picking up a straightdraw.

As played I would also fold on the flop. Sticking around with third pair and no draw just get you into sticky situations, where you have no idea, whats going on, and basically you are just hoping, the guy is on an airball bluff.

fundiver199 said:

It is basically never correct to limp into the pot, unless other players have limped already, and/or its a game with antes. This was a cash game without antes, and then you should always raise or fold, when nobody has entered the pot ahead of you.

This is a pretty fundamental thing, so I am a little surpriced, two forum members tell you, that limping is correct here. 6-max NLH is solved to such an extend now, that this is not really up for debate, and everyone can find the answer by reading strategy articles etc.

If you are the aggressor preflop, then Villain probably check to you on the flop, and on this board I would check back and take a free turn card. At least this gives you one more shot of making your set or perhaps picking up a straightdraw.

As played I would also fold on the flop. Sticking around with third pair and no draw just get you into sticky situations, where you have no idea, whats going on, and basically you are just hoping, the guy is on an airball bluff.

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What are some of the factors that would make you decide to check back the flop instead of C-bet on this board had it been played straight forward? I thought our nutted range advantage with the redraws would make this a good continuation? We block some straight draws and NFDs are 3 betting from the BB fairly often

Actually looking at it again I thought you had flatted someone's open but you in fact limped I would of opened here and then called if BB 3 bet.

EarnDAStack said:

What are some of the factors that would make you decide to check back the flop instead of C-bet on this board had it been played straight forward? I thought our nutted range advantage with the redraws would make this a good continuation? We block some straight draws and NFDs are 3 betting from the BB fairly often

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I think, betting on this board is turning our hand into a value bluff. We might have the best hand, but if we bet and get action, we are never in good shape. We are crushed by his made hands, and even when he is drawing, he has huge equity and a very good chance to win the pot. As bet does deny some equity though, so in that sense its not completely terrible. I just think, checking is superior, and in general I am not a fan of C-betting 100% of the time.

fundiver199 said:

I think, betting on this board is turning our hand into a value bluff. We might have the best hand, but if we bet and get action, we are never in good shape. We are crushed by his made hands, and even when he is drawing, he has huge equity and a very good chance to win the pot. As bet does deny some equity though, so in that sense its not completely terrible. I just think, checking is superior, and in general I am not a fan of C-betting 100% of the time.

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Thank you for your response. I’ve definitely found myself struggling with reading some of the more middling flops and how they hit different positions ranges. As you said were really not doing well against anything that calls our bet. I like the check back more and more

Wow! this HA forum is excellent! I have to go back and re-read everybody's responses and really put some thought into the replies. Hopefully by then it will become obvious what the correct decision would have been. Amazing how much we can learn from each other! Thank you to all!

Well, that didnt take me long to assess after a quick review of the replay and your replies. No question, I should have raised and not limped in. Not sure what the action would have been had I done that but certainly the results couldnt have been any worse then what occurred. I want you all to know that i appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts.
What fundiver wrote was especially noteworthy.
However equal props to all of you for your efforts.

dorynel7 said:

Preflop i like your play, but on the flop you've folded to a single bet your opponent c-bet, i like to make a call then decide on the turn what you do depending on the action of the opponent.

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Ianmacca99 said:

Preflop I like the flat but you've folded on the flop to a single bet. Sure you could of been behind but think you've got to call there how much of his range includes a 10 or an 8 think he is cbetting at a high frequency if he has connected or not. I'd call there and play some turns

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stil370 said:

Wow! this HA forum is excellent! I have to go back and re-read everybody's responses and really put some thought into the replies. Hopefully by then it will become obvious what the correct decision would have been. Amazing how much we can learn from each other! Thank you to all!

Click to expand...

Well, that didnt take me long to assess after a quick review of the replay and your replies. No question, I should have raised and not limped in. Not sure what the action would have been had I done that but certainly the results couldnt have been any worse then what occurred. I want you all to know that i appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts.
What fundiver wrote was especially noteworthy. not to mention EarnDAstack for taking it to another level.
However equal props to all of you for your efforts.

stil370 said:

Hi Guys,

Would love to hear what you thing of the replay below. Should I have raised the 77(s) from the beginning? Or did I play it correctly?

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/6qdlkUc

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Open raise pre flop. Open limping in almost always wrong. I also think that you needed to continue on that flop, even without the lead most of the time. You beat a good chunk of most peoples range there. I would consider either raise-fold or floating with the intention steal the pot later. Most players in my games aren't barrelling air on the turn, so decisions get pretty easy.

GWU73 said:

Open raise pre flop. Open limping in almost always wrong. I also think that you needed to continue on that flop, even without the lead most of the time. You beat a good chunk of most peoples range there. I would consider either raise-fold or floating with the intention steal the pot later. Most players in my games aren't barrelling air on the turn, so decisions get pretty easy.

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Thanks GWU. Your answer really made me think about how to play a similar situation in the future.

General guidance:
Don’t limp. Never openlimp.
Just Openraise 66+ from EP. If you feel you get 3B / squeezed, maybe don’t open.

Apart from that, the hand is played fine.