$100 NLHE 6-max: Bluff Catching the Maniac again?

BTN: 132.5 BB (VPIP: 29.49, PFR: 20.51, 3Bet Preflop: 8.06, hands: 162)
SB: 201.83 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 3)
BB: 114 BB (VPIP: 57.93, PFR: 47.59, 3Bet Preflop: 28.26, Hands: 159)
UTG: 270.17 BB (VPIP: 26.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
MP: 118 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
Hero (CO): 107 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Jh Th
fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, BB raises to 10 BB, Hero calls 7.5 BB

Flop : (20.5 BB, 2 players) Jc 5s 4c
BB bets 10.17 BB, Hero calls 10.17 BB

Turn : (40.83 BB, 2 players) 5d
BB bets 27.17 BB, Hero calls 27.17 BB

River : (95.17 BB, 2 players) Ac
BB bets 66.67 BB and is all-in, fold

180NL
This is the same maniac from this hand I posted eariler.
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cas...00-nlhe-6-max-tough-river-438497/#post5324075

I'm probably folding almost 100% this river jam vs decent regs. But don't know if it's ev+ calling vs this guy. another crappy river. He could have anything tbh. Any Ax or pure air.

Decent regs should have bluffs.

I'm probably folding almost 100% this river jam vs decent regs. But don't know if it's ev+ calling vs this guy. another crappy river. He could have anything tbh. Any Ax or pure air.[/QUOTE said:

Thank U 4 Posting

100 % folds vs decent regs in the same spot seems to black and white to me, considering the regs should have notes on you and know that you can make river folds.

After all would not a decent reg know you are not chasing 2 streets with just an ace?

Or is that above the skill level of what you consider a decent reg?

Hope this helps.

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eetenor said:

100 % folds vs decent regs in the same spot seems to black and white to me,

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it's because no sane reg would be triple barrel jamming something like 9s in this spot.
He would be playing his range &my range & something that'd triple barrel jam this texture would be very nutted & less bluffy imo.
Unless I know him to do so. Still I don't think it's that profitable to bluff catch with a weak mid pair like this

ok decent means straight forward all the time, got it.

Alucard said:

it's because no sane reg would be triple barrel jamming something like 9s in this spot.
He would be playing his range &my range & something that'd triple barrel jam this texture would be very nutted & less bluffy imo.
Unless I know him to do so. Still I don't think it's that profitable to bluff catch with a weak mid pair like this

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Thank U 4 Responding.

I think you may want to be a little more flexible in your considerations of what a player might bluff on that river.

Your thoughts are solid but never say never should be in your thought process. Surely a few decent players would know to jam bluff that river with 99 AK AQ vs a hero who would fold J10 often enough to make it profitable especially if said hero's hud numbers indicate enough folds on the river. Add to that all the, "the only way I can win this is jam bluff- regs" and surely a call down must have some value. What that is I do not know but it is above 0%

Do you need to consider this? Maybe not. Maybe your capturing enough equity without making this play part of your game.

Flexible thinking is my main point. We can never be 100% certain of all actions our villains take. We can only estimate how often it happens: say 98% of the time and the 2% is too difficult to capture so we do not try.

Just some thoughts.

Hope this helps

I would love to call this guy down on a blank river, but as you say, this is an extremely bad card. The issue is not only, that it could have helped him. The issue is also, that most of his reasonable bluffs are no longer bluffs. So if we bluff catch, what are we even hoping to see, like 76s exactly? Or KQ? There are just not enough hands left in even a wide 3-betting range, that are still bluffs. So even if he is over bluffing us on the flop and turn, when he jam the river, I think, he is pretty value heavy.

He had T9o for the luls. I think I like playing aggro & getting money asap vs this guy than play these ridiculous rives

dlt

Alucard said:

He had T9o for the luls. I think I like playing aggro & getting money asap vs this guy than play these ridiculous rives

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If he really is a maniac that bluffs a lot when you just call - and often bets then you check with his weak hands, but can get away as soon as you shows strength with bets or a rise the best way to beat him is to trap. Sometimes even bluff yourself if he thinks you are tight and always strong when you raise post

If he also is some kind of calling station as soon he has a hand or draw by all means play your strong hands faster and get the money in earlier.

But don't be afraid to trap a bluffer just because this river makes you puke. (I would also fold here).

He will continue to bluff - it's in his nature - and you, or some, other player will catch him pretty soon.

preflop is fine and standard, perhaps vs certain nitty regs we can fold to the 4x 3bet but not vs the villain described.

now on this flop obviously we are calling a half pot bet IP but we are already basically losing to his entire value range....our Kicker shouldn't be good enough vs is TP 3bet/value bet range. so....bluff catching mode already.

once he fires 2/3 pot on the turn I'm starting to consider whether or not to hang on. if he really is a "bet bet bet" type maniac then perhaps we can hold on and hope for good rivers. but vs a lot of more straightforward opponents we can just give up on the turn (the 5 pairing is actually not great for us because vs his overpairs we had 5 outs on the flop to suckout but once the 5 pairs it removes 3 of our Tens as outs to suck out).

The river is the worst because if he bet twice with AK or AQ he got there, if he was betting on a draw he got there and if he was ahead before he is still ahead. River fold is fine. for me the only question in this hand is the turn and it's villain dependent.

In preflop you should have folded, after of the re-raise the big blind.
You have a maniac player in your hand and your J-T combination only exceeds 50% of all possible combinations of the deck.
In addition, although you can block important lines, it would not be good to risk a color of Jack, since you would be exceeded 30% of the time, compared to better nuts.
In the flop the call is standard, but on the turn probably a re-raise would alert the middle pockets.
Perhaps an increase between x4.5 and x6.5 would withdraw much mid-range that does not see your call profitable at this point.
In the 5th street the top pairs probably arrive or maybe some set now become a full house. So the movement in this place would be check-fold.
Greetings.

gustav197poker said:

In preflop you should have folded, after of the re-raise the big blind.
You have a maniac player in your hand and your J-T combination only exceeds 50% of all possible combinations of the deck.
In addition, although you can block important lines, it would not be good to risk a color of Jack, since you would be exceeded 30% of the time, compared to better nuts.
. . .
. . .
Greetings.

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I think this is interesting. You may want to look for some better spots here, as I'm sure there will be.

As played, a turn fold is definitely reasonable, especially with stack sizes. You can decide right then if you are comfortable getting it in, as it sets up river SPR for a jam.

Maybe he could do this with 9s, but he does it with a ton of stuff that has you beat as well. You'd really have to throw in a lot of air in there to see a profit.