$10 NLHE 6-max: raised limped 4-way TPTK..

Haze of Spade · Apr 11, 2020

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 48/12/3

just wondering what to do here.. obviously not a favourable spot but the player seemed to be a fish and not much money behind.

the reason i post this is because i don`t think i ever was in that specific spot before, won't post the results yet.

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 107 BB
BB: 104.5 BB
UTG: 122.3 BB
MP: 148.4 BB
Hero (CO): 100 BB
BTN: 74.4 BB (48/12/3 - PF/VP/AF)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J♠ A♦

fold, MP calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 4 BB, BTN calls 4 BB, fold, BB calls 3 BB, MP calls 3 BB

Flop: (16.5 BB, 4 players) J♥ T♥ 8♥
BB checks, MP checks, Hero checks, BTN bets 15.8 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 96 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 54.6 BB and is all-in

fundiver199 · Apr 11, 2020

Four players saw the flop, both a straight and flush is possible, and he almost bet the size of the pot. Given this situation I would strongly consider to simply fold, and I would never go for a check-raise. I think, you are massively overplaying your hand and only getting action, when you are crushed or against a big draw. Its way different, if you had Ah, because then you would at least have a draw to the nuts, when you are behind.

Vallet · Apr 11, 2020

You are afraid that the opponent will strengthen further, because the Board is very dangerous. But note that he has the smallest stack at the table and the pot bet. Your ace is not a suit of hearts. I would choose the call option and look at its bids further.

teh_colonel_saigon · Apr 11, 2020

Villain could have a draw or a weak holding, but he also would have all the nuttish holdings. Depending on how wide you see him doing this, (if hes a maniac) calling might be OK, but your hand cant stand all that much heat.

Reraising on the flop is only going to get called by worse. You want weaker hands to try to draw, remember?

Haze of Spade · Apr 11, 2020

I know the jam wasn't really great but i just felt that i have no other option.
Folding to his bet is no option but i don't wanna call oop with such a small spr on such a drawy board ever, against this player type.
I think he could have some nonsense like 2h x or a weaker pair which he will call the jam with. The sample was only 25 hands but he seemed to be a good candidate for that type of player.

But i know the problem is that his draws have such a good equity that they will be ahead alot of the time. So calling and continue on a good turn makes sense since my equity is much better with only 1 card to come. I just think with his big bet he forced me to jam and i'm just in a bad spot like a cooler if he has the nuts.

The only other way i can think of is calling flop and donk the turn. Because i really dont wanna let him check back!

fundiver199 · Apr 12, 2020

Haze of Spade said:
I think he could have some nonsense like 2h x or a weaker pair which he will call the jam with. The sample was only 25 hands but he seemed to be a good candidate for that type of player.

48/12 is the classic recreational player (fish), who sees a lot of flops and mostly depend on making hands. Sure he could be trying to "protect" his KJ or QJ, but when he play half the deck, he can also have nearly every suited hand, that flopped a flush, and he can have offsuit combinations of those hands, that flopped a straight or two pair.

AF 3 is high, but that number is not reliable, until you have at least 100 hands, so you should simply ignore it. I am sure, you can find a better spot to stack off against someone like this. Its also very bad to have him on your direct left. So unless you had position on another huge fish, this is a table, I would leave.

Haze of Spade · Apr 12, 2020

Alright so when i saw his hand i already realized my jam was bad.
He had AQ with the flushdraw but what was shocking me was that i only 39% equity with TPTK against a draw.. Dont remember if i ever had that before

@fundiver
I always look for good tables, if i remember right the table was full of fish, i usually leave when the players to my left start 3betting me. But he flat-called AQ.. I might even play against him oop

quant1986 · Apr 12, 2020

Yes I would be inclined to fold as played.

BTN bet indicates very polarized range and BB/MP still acting behind and they could have flopped 2pairs+

Aballinamion · Apr 13, 2020

Line: hyper exploitative c-bet on the flops gets a shove on a heavy connected texture

Haze of Spade said:
Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 48/12/3

just wondering what to do here.. obviously not a favourable spot but the player seemed to be a fish and not much money behind.

the reason i post this is because i don`t think i ever was in that specific spot before, won't post the results yet.

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 107 BB
BB: 104.5 BB
UTG: 122.3 BB
MP: 148.4 BB
Hero (CO): 100 BB
BTN: 74.4 BB (48/12/3 - PF/VP/AF)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J♠ A♦

fold, MP calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 4 BB, BTN calls 4 BB, fold, BB calls 3 BB, MP calls 3 BB

Flop: (16.5 BB, 4 players) J♥ T♥ 8♥
BB checks, MP checks, Hero checks, BTN bets 15.8 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 96 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 54.6 BB and is all-in

With all due respect to Nathan 'blackrain79' Williams work, this is exactly why I do not love these hyper exploitative lines versus fishes, or these "Assassinato" likes, where we are putting a trunk of value into the flop just because we are inclined to believe that our opponent is a recreational.
Just remembering 'blackrain79' and "Assassinato" that we do bet for value and for bluff, not because our adversary is from England, or because we hit TPTK.
If you believe this Villain is that weak, that on a flop where it completes a flush and a straight, Villain is still able to be paying/raising 100% c-bet flop with wost/dominated Jx, Tx and 8x?
If you believe that, put all the money in and be happy. But remember, we are not putting money on the pot because our Villain is a nitty or a fishy, per excellence, but because we REALLY believe we have the best hand and Villain is weak enough to pay with air/draws/dominated hands. Good luck!

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

JimmyBrizzy · Apr 13, 2020

What was the reasoning for not cbetting?

Haze of Spade · Apr 18, 2020

Likminutz said:
What was the reasoning for not cbetting?

Like aballinamion recognized i tried to get value from what i assumed was a maniac fish. I expected him to bet a very wide range when checked to and also i can see how the other 2 players react to a bet without investing anything yet.

Haze of Spade · Apr 18, 2020

Aballinamion said:
With all due respect to Nathan 'blackrain79' Williams work, this is exactly why I do not love these hyper exploitative lines versus fishes, or these "Assassinato" likes, where we are putting a trunk of value into the flop just because we are inclined to believe that our opponent is a recreational.
Just remembering 'blackrain79' and "Assassinato" that we do bet for value and for bluff, not because our adversary is from England, or because we hit TPTK.
If you believe this Villain is that weak, that on a flop where it completes a flush and a straight, Villain is still able to be paying/raising 100% c-bet flop with wost/dominated Jx, Tx and 8x?
If you believe that, put all the money in and be happy. But remember, we are not putting money on the pot because our Villain is a nitty or a fishy, per excellence, but because we REALLY believe we have the best hand and Villain is weak enough to pay with air/draws/dominated hands. Good luck!

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

Actually i think thats the way to go and blackrain79 is 100% right. Its incredible what they will show up with in similar spots..

But the problem is that these players often dont stay long at the table and after 25 hands you just cant know what they about.
I learned that with such a small sample there must be some solid read to justify such a play which i just didnt had.
And the board was bad too because his draws have such a good equity. I realize that now after i saw that my made hand only had 39% equity. I was expecting a coinflip at least, which wouldnt be that great too..

fundiver199 · Apr 20, 2020

Haze of Spade said:
He had AQ with the flushdraw but what was shocking me was that i only 39% equity with TPTK against a draw.. Dont remember if i ever had that before

This is exactly the issue. A lot of his draws are combo draws. In this case he had both a gutshot and a free overcard as well as a flushdraw. So you are either drawing nearly dead or flipping, if we are kind about it, and this is why, I prefer to just fold and find a better spot. Or at least just call and then maybe donk jam the turn, if its a brick. With just one card to come the equity would be like 70/30 in your favour.

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$10 NLHE 6-max: raised limped 4-way TPTK..

Haze of Spade

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fundiver199

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Vallet

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teh_colonel_saigon

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Haze of Spade

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fundiver199

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Haze of Spade

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quant1986

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Aballinamion

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JimmyBrizzy

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Haze of Spade

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fundiver199

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