Would you lay down AAA77 ???

Was watching Flack & Hellmuth playing $100 NL online one night (along with 380 other peeps LOL)...

Someone tell me how to "read" this one online....

Betting was agressive - Preflop pot was around $2000

Flop comes A77

Flack bets around $1500 - Hellmuth calls

Turn comes a blank -

Flack goes all in for his last $4200....

Phil pauses for 15 seconds - Folds - and shows AA-A77

WHAT???? :icon_shak

The IM railbirds go nuts.....

BUT....

THEN Flack shows 7777!

WHAT A LAYDOWN!!

WOULD YOU?

And... how on earth could he have "read" THAT??

If thats true then that is an incredible play

Cant imagine any player laying that down under any circumstances. He had the only hand that could poss beat the boat

That sounds like show for the viewers. If you polled the people of CC I don't think you wouldn't find to many if any that would lay that down. That had to be a good show or the worlds best read EEVVEERR!!!!!!!!

Wow. Yeah, I wouldn't have laid that down. Guess that's why I'm not a pro...lol Or like Dennis said, maybe it was for show? Crazy stuff, that.

What do you mean for show? This was a real game right? I'm confused...

soadwes said:

What do you mean for show? This was a real game right? I'm confused...

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First you have to think in a situation like that, Seriously who is going to lay down that hand? Then since this is Hellmuth's sponser site and they know 300+ people are watching, maybe these two were in communication with each other and the showed lay down was for show. They knew this would be a hot topic and get a lot of people talking. Well apparently it worked cause here we are talking up a storm about it. The real question would be at the end who was the winner? If there was no clear winner then you could see how it was a show for the people on UB to swoon over.

Isn't that collusion? I still don't see how he could be able to know the other guys cards.

There's another way to look at this - what other hand would have caused the same betting pattern?

Flack can't hold AA, since there aren't enough aces left.

With that out of the way, the field is narrowed down to A7, AK or 77, if Flack has any sort of hand at all.

Hellmuth has made great laydowns before, but this one was scary.

They also have played each other like a billion times and Phil prides himself on his reads. He probably knew that Flack wouldn't put all his money in without knowing he had the best of it......me, I'd be broke of course.

Freak and FP are right, but I will never believe that this happened without help. It's just me I guess. That hand just blows my mind and I don't care how good or how many times they've butted heads. If it wasn't in a live game there is no way (even Phil) would have layed that down.

Oh! It was online? I missed that the first time.

Then his ability to make reads is seriously diminished and I'm leaning towards "he accidently hit fold when he meant to call".

They PM each other... It is similar to "running it twice" when you have such a huge showdown hand, it is complimetary to level out the results. In other words both hands are all in hands, and it is a sitation where one can't out play the other. They both acknowlege huge monster hands in which both pros will lose their stacks.

They both agree to show, to keep things honest. In other words when skill isn't a factor and the two luckily/unluckily flop ridiculously huge, One PM's the other stating fold showing and Ill show, I have quads. They are not interested in these showdowns because of the significantly reduced skill used in the hand.

Bill

Makes total sense to me when explained that way Bill....I like you're answer the best.

Well can you translate for me then, cos I didn't understand a word of it!

What good does it do for them to put on a "show"? To me, it sounds like a lot of effort & time to PM before the hand timer goes off.

The only other thing I could think of is that they were on the phone with each other while playing. Picture this: Layne says "Dude, I guarantee I got you beat." Phil says "You think so? I'll fold if you show." Layne says "For $100, I will." Phil says "Deal." What do you think of that?

robwhufc said:

Well can you translate for me then, cos I didn't understand a word of it!

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Boy didn't you hit it on the head. I kind of of see what Bill was getting at but why PM and not just type it in on the game if that was the case.Either way that explanation left me scratching my head.
I can see MrStickers idea. That is what I think is most feasible. No one would lay that down unless they knew something. NO ONE !!!!!

Good thoughts all - I've never seen anything like it either - and yeah, it was online (UB) - but as to the $100 theory - Hellmuth was already out $2500+ by the time the all-in came... Still don't know how you can / could get away from that hand?? - And yes, it's 100% true.... I do suspect PM - but - that would be dishonest LOL - in poker?? ROTF

Well it's not like anyone has ever lied or cheated in poker.LOL

Hmm, its sorta not cheating if its heads up. I feel its cheating to tell you the truth, but if you and i are in a hand I can say to you, "can you beat Aces?" You may answer truthfully or not. We are playing a psychological game.

However, If you are a pro, and I am a Pro, and we get into it, it is going to be for a lot of chips. See you feel you have a monster, but so do I. To determine you bet, I raise, you reraise. I push you call.
We now see we are in a coin flip with 2 very big hands. We can now say run it 2 times, or 3 times. This means flop it, see who wins, flop it agains, and see who wins then divide the pot. This levels out the results.

Others may insure there hands, with insurance guys.

Out of consideration, when 2 pros crash like this they will often say run it twice, or fold and show, I will do the same. They know this will happen again, and the rolls will be reversed. So they lelel it out. If each month we play together, and one month I lose 100k to you, and the next month you lose 100k to me... Well, lets just even it out, no one wants those kinds of swings.

Kinda tough to explain,

Bill

Let's play poker and I'll lose $100 to you but I want you to lose it back to me in two weeks. This does not make any sense. I'm a poker player not a loan officer. Why would any pro do such a retarded thing? If you're my friend and you need a grand just ask. I'm willing to stake, but I'm not going to lose it to you just so you agree to lose it back to me later. Sorry Bill, don't mean to sound like an ass, this just doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

Ya I thought that explanation sucked.

Lets say that every Tuesday night you and I buyin to a game for 100k. We have been playing this game for months. OK this week I happen to catch Quads, while you make Aces full. We are going to play or our entire stacks. I will win 100k. NIce win , Im stoked. You are bummed. 2months later, your straight flush cracks my full boat for 100k. Your stoked Im bummed. The following weeks nothing happens. We both pull a meager profit.
The game goes on eventually you see pocket Q's. You bet I raise you push I push, we are playing for 100k. This is the flip of a coin, you ll win, or Ill win.... Not a great way to make a living. I say lets run it twice. You say cool. We deal the flop, an Ace hits and I win, so we deal another flop no K or A you win. We each split.

These pros make money on an hourly basis. They are looking to make 1.5 to 2 big bets an hour, factoring in variance. They are not looking to risk entire big buyins on a coin flip that has no skill. Skill gives them the edge. Luck is something they are ot interested in.

Bill

Very nice that makes more sense. At least a little. Now we just need another opinion on your comments.
Hint hint, Anyone.

I still don't understand how the 2 could be talking to each other about their hands... Thats not allowed!!! Now, i know they could, but it's called cheating.