tourney win percentage?

K, Im a ring table guy but have been drawn into tourneys recently, largely through groups such as this. So far I am bubbling at about 30% of entries, in FRs and dimers, a few final tables. A bit better at SNGs.

So all you tourney pros, I would like to know what kind of bubble percentage I should looking at be at to be doing well.

Annie Duke says if you win two a year (first in major tourneys I guess) you are doing great. Right now I am playing a dozen tourneys a day at piddling stakes, when I could be making money, including bonuses and rakeback, at the stud tables.

Am I wasting my time???

Makwa:joyman:

If you feel comfortable in the ring, and are profitable there, tourney's might not be the format for you.

The allure of the big tourney win notwithstanding, an good ring player will usually outdo most tourney money and do it on a more friendly time schedule.

However, the tourney overlay is, as I said, most alluring.

I am very much a ring game player and found the transition to tourney life kind of difficult at first. With ring games, it's easy to sit back and wait for the action to come to you. Picking your spots to blind steal, and generally just waiting for quality hands.

With tourneys, you don't always get that option, and sometimes you have to force the action.

The fundamentals are still the same though. Get a read on your opponent(s), and make well timed moves. I've found that being able to easily switch gears is much more important in a tourney than a ring game.

Personally, I play in at least 2 15-20 person home sit-n-gos per week (thursday night), plus whatever other days I decide to find a game. Played 6 live sit-n-gos last week, won one, cashed in two others. I try and basically break even in the tourneys, and make money in my ring games. Partly because I use one of my thursday games as a playground to test out new styles/gears, and partly because it's just a bunch of friends so I don't really care that much.

dj11 said:

If you feel comfortable in the ring, and are profitable there, tourney's might not be the format for you.

The allure of the big tourney win notwithstanding, an good ring player will usually outdo most tourney money and do it on a more friendly time schedule.

However, the tourney overlay is, as I said, most alluring.

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Sure, I think there is more slow and steady grinding out wins in the ring. BUT, I am inspired by Jesus' Zero to Hero campaign, and note that he did it largely w tourneys. Hmmmmmm......

To get back to my basic question, what is an expected win (in the money) percentage for lo limit tourneys?

MM

I play mostly MTT's
But my bankroll has suffered on some reckless play/TILT..
I play many freerolls On pokerstars and 6/10 I am in the Top 10% Finish.
I just finished a 10,000 Player freeroll and finished 1499 (Top 14%)
If that were a Higher Level buy-in and a 15% finish is usually the bubble.
Or just out of it!

When I was playing MTT's at low/micro levels the bad play factor is there.
Hence the reason going on tilt due to bad beats players calling 4xBB bets with 6-4s and hitting a set of 6's..

But aside from that if you are playing in Tournaments that have around 1500-2500 entrants, Aim for a Top 10% finish and you will usually double-up your buy-in.
As far as winning % Go I would say depending on your Avg. Buy-In.
# of MTT's x $ value divide by Expected Win Ratio

Say 10 MTT's @ $5.50 per = $55.00 if you expect to Cash in 7/10 then you have 70% win ratio.
ITM in a $5.50 MTT is usually around $9.30 (depending on # of entrants)
so if your goal is to double-up at least then that is the base minimum rate to draw the relative comparison.
If there are 1250 Entrants then the target of Top 10% is usually a double-up. Top 1% or 12th place is around 7x ROI.
And these take around 5-6 hours to complete.
So to win 1 MTT at this example out 10 = Top Prize of $1320. roughly
if you cash in 6 and win one outright then you average All your winnings, $30 + $1320 = $1350 - $55.00 = $1290 (+) in 60 hours. 709.5% ROI

Now Winning % is a variable based on how much you Cash, when you Cash, so you can see a winning % is relative.
and if you want to take your winnings of an average out of 10 - $5.50 MTT's Take your total winnings after 10 MTT's and divide by the Total Profit. Then you average $129.00 Profit / 10 Tournaments.

So if you think you are wasting your time then stay with what pays best ROI / per Buy-in, staying within a BR management strategy.
Like I said MTT's and going deep = Bigger $ out, but the time factor.
60=$1290 vs. 60 hrs @ ring game...hmmm

Ferguson Played S&G's and MTT's to build his BR then he went to the Low limit ring games when his BR permitted his Buy-In.

~Time factor it's your Call!~

Makwa said:

Sure, I think there is more slow and steady grinding out wins in the ring. BUT, I am inspired by Jesus' Zero to Hero campaign, and note that he did it largely w tourneys. Hmmmmmm......

To get back to my basic question, what is an expected win (in the money) percentage for lo limit tourneys?

MM

Click to expand...

To be realistic, and ITM rate of 20-25% is acceptable, but you have to consider your ROI as the big factor in assessing ypur progress and performance. Keep tabs on your cash br and tourney br as 2 seperate entities for a while, and look at how you stack up.

reglardave said:

To be realistic, and ITM rate of 20-25% is acceptable, but you have to consider your ROI as the big factor in assessing ypur progress and performance. Keep tabs on your cash br and tourney br as 2 seperate entities for a while, and look at how you stack up.

Click to expand...

Right, txs for helping me think this through a bit better. I have only been a tourney hound for a couple of months, but my ITM is comfortable at 35 - 30%, with some final table and final 3 finishes.

I track my ring games also separately.

I may start putting some real money into tourneys. I have to get off the current merrygoround tho; they take tons of my time and attention (as opposed to dropping into rings here and there to give or take fast hits), so if ROI includes my time, I can only count this as a learning (not real income generating) experience for now. But watch out.

FRs, forums and chat support have really helped me get a foothold in tourney life over the past couple of months.

Thanks for all the responses.

FR coming up gotta go. Happy thanksgiving to all us canucks.