Opinions on WSOP top 20

The players listed below are the top 20 players, as far as the betting is concerned at this years wsop. Anybody got any opinions on their chances, how good they are, whether they like dislike etc

Daniel Negreanu
Erick Lindgren
Phil Ivey
Howard Lederer
Phil Hellmuth Jnr
Eric Seidal
John Juanda
Men Nguyen
Scotty Nguyen
David Chiu
Ram Vaswani
Johnny Chan
David Ulliott
Gus Hansen
Scott Fischman
Marcel Luske
Chris Ferguson
Ted Forrest
Dan Harrington
TJ Coutier

Devilfish is in tip top form at the moment and playing some world class poker.He has been very consistant of late and especially in the minor holdem events, not sure exactly but he has a couple of 3rds since the wsop started a couple weeks back- i rate and rank him highly at the moment.

But i wouldnt be suprised to see a few unknows at the final table and 1 of them winning it.

Was chatting to roy "the boy "brindley the other night and he said gus hansen hasnt been seen yet.but i notice hansen's site are advertising the wsop final table live online via his site,maybe he feels he is going to be on it and win it!

Hi - I think Daniel N. has a great chance of getting to the final table in winning - IF he folds some hands and doesn't HAVE to see the other guys cards. He has a habit of calling just to see what a guy has in his hand.

I enjoy him a lot. He's animated and funny and fun to watch.

Phil Ivey is too serious for me. -- I'd love to see Scotty N. do well and win! Baaabee.

cuyber said:

Devilfish is in tip top form at the moment and playing some world class poker.He has been very consistant of late and especially in the minor holdem events, not sure exactly but he has a couple of 3rds since the wsop started a couple weeks back- i rate and rank him highly at the moment.

But i wouldnt be suprised to see a few unknows at the final table and 1 of them winning it.

Was chatting to roy "the boy "brindley the other night and he said gus hansen hasnt been seen yet.but i notice hansen's site are advertising the wsop final table live online via his site,maybe he feels he is going to be on it and win it!

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Do you play on Ladbrokes by any chance? Roy 'the boy' is sponsored by these, as you probably know.

How did you chat to him? webchat?

I like Roy. He is very honest and I dont think he particularly likes Lederer for some reason!!

I predict the final table is 4 or 5 unknowns and 4 or 5 pros. Hellmuth, Harrington, EDog, Jesus, Devilfish, Howard Lederer, would be my short list of pros.

Hansen is at the WSOP now, he was in denmark for his sister having a baby or some such nonsense.

Negreanu, and Ivey are too concerned with the cash games going on and haven't done as well as expected. Negreanu has no cashes or final tables thus far and Ivey just made it deep in a field of an Omaha event, but I'm not sure yet how he did. He was running the table last I checked late last night. I think all the cash game action in the "big game" has some of the best players preoccupied. They can play for 2 hours and make a half-million or play 2-3 days for 300,000. Their focus is shifting. The only reason Greenstein and Todd Brunson are even bothering is so that they can get some of that almighty media coverage that they don't get because they play in cash games. They're tired of people like Phil Hellmuth getting all the attention when they feel they are better than him.

i really like ivey and negreanu
i hope they both do better in the WSOP this year
they're some real up n comers
jus watch

ivey won a bracelet thats better than most ;]

with the field being that big a bet on anyone is a massive longshot to win it, believe betfair has groups of pros you can bet on rather than just an individual

Ivey is a freakin' monster. He is knocking the cash games dead AND he is winning bracelets. He won number five yesterday. Ivey is like the Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan of poker. He has some kind of intangible "thing" that makes him almost super-human at the poker table. Simply amazing. Few can play in the big game and still knock tournaments down.

Ivey is a freakin' monster. He is knocking the cash games dead AND he is winning bracelets. He won number five yesterday. Ivey is like the Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan of poker. He has some kind of intangible "thing" that makes him almost super-human at the poker table. Simply amazing. Few can play in the big game and still knock tournaments down.

Diablo - I disagree somewhat. He said himself that he's been coming in 3rd or 2nd and really needs a big tourney win. Not sure what he's doing at this WSOP or WPT. I've watched him play and he's kind of easily intimidated and folds quite a bit on big bets. He may be very good at cash games, tho.

I just wish he'd lighten up and smile.

Where do you guys watch these pro's play? In the UK we occasionally get some poker on Channel 5 but you guys seem to be able to watch it loads more. Is there a satelite channel? I know of Sky 226 but havent watched it yet

I wonder if Mike (forgot his surname, the one sponsored by Coral who was on that UK documentary recently) is going to be playing this year. He bummed out last year

Michele, no offense hun, but you couldn't be more wrong about Ivey. He is not one for self promotion so you don't see or hear about his wins normally. And sure, he comes in second and third a LOT, but with the explosion in the size of these feilds, that's as good as first was just a year ago. The last WSOP he busted out on a bad, BAD, beat that if he would have won, would have been in a great chip position. He has 5 WSOP bracelets, and he is rather young. If he continues playing like this he will have more than Chan's 10 or Hellmuth's and Brunsons 9. One of those five bracelets came this year, just a few days ago.

Aside from all this, Ivey is killing the "big game" on a consistant basis. I'm not sure you have done much reading about the big game (because reading is the only way to hear about it as it is not advertised, nor publicised) but it is a game that only a few pros have the money to play in, and even fewer of them actually have the skills to do so. Ivey is one of them. Allong with the likes of Doyle and Todd Brunson, Barry Greenstein, David "Chip" Reese, and various stragglers that aren't consistant winners (read: Gus Hansen). When any pro is asked about the best poker player and who they are, Ivey is usually at the top or on top of their list. He is as close to a perfect all around player as there is right now. As far as him being scared to push, he plays almost nightly in the biggest cash game in the world, with his own money. A game in which the pots can be as large as half-million dollars. The buyin for these events he is supposedly scared during is at the most 25 grand (WPT World Championship), so at most assuming a finish on the bubble or lower, he is only out 25 grand. That is almost equal to one big bet in the limit cash games he plays. So I highly doubt fear plays a part. The guy has icewater in his veins.

Another noch in Ivey's belt which solidifies his rank among the greats was NBC's Poker Superstars Invitational. 8 players chosen; Doyle Brunson, Johnny Chan, Barry Greenstein, Chip Reese, Howard Lederer, TJ Cluotier, Gus Hansen, and Phil Ivey. He finished second to Hansen, who coincidentally he knocks dead in the big game. Hansen even admitted this himself in a live webchat, saying that "I will return to the big game, I just have to take some time off to lick my wounds."

So, yes. Phil Ivey is one of the best, if not the best player (all around) in the world right now. You don't hear as much about him as many other players because he shys away from all the big publicity. It is widely known that Ivey has turned down millions in enborsement deals speciffically for this reason. I belive the only one he has signed was with FullTilt poker.

Ok, we'll put Diabloblanco down for Phil Ivey then....?


There are a lot of interesting stories on The Big Game on barrygreinstein.com

It's a great site.This is anecdote he tells about Ivey:
Phil had started playing in Los Angeles several years back and he asked me, “Where is the best place to live?” I told him, “I live in the best area, but it’s pretty pricy.” Phil always thinks big. He said, “I want to take a look at it.”
He came over to the house with his wife Luciaetta, and I needled him when I said, “See, this is how a successful poker player lives.” He said, “This is out of my league now, but some day I’ll own a big house like this, too.” Phil was especially interested in the sit-down Ms. Pac Man game that was in my gameroom. I mentioned that I bought it for my girlfriend because she was the best that I had ever seen at it. He said he was the best that anyone had ever seen. I got a call from someone at the airport who wanted me to pick them up. Phil and Luciaetta were having fun with my kids and I asked them if they minded watching my kids until I got back. Phil asked, “Can I play the Ms. Pac Man game?” I said, “Of course.” When I returned an hour later, Phil was still sitting playing the game. He smiled and said, “Well, your girlfriend doesn’t have the high score anymore.”

colin_147 said:

The players listed below are the top 20 players, as far as the betting is concerned at this years WSOP.

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So, this list represents the Top 20 money winners for overall Player of the Year? Wow!! What a murderer's row! No accidents there. Reads like a who's who of Big Time Poker, doesn't it?

I'll go with Daniel to repeat as Player of the Year. I don't think there's a better all-around poker player alive today. He excels at every variation of the game. If he can go deep into the Main Event this year, which he didn't do last year and still won POTY, I think he's a shoo-in.

Does anyone know if a player has previously won back-to-back Player of the Year bracelets since they began awarding it?

I think the player of the year award is different than the top 20 list here. These are the 20 favorites to win the main event right? As far as the ESPN/Toyota Player of the Year the leader right now is Mark Seif with 2 braclets as for Daniel, he is having a tough time at this years WSOP so far. He still has time but a repeat performance may already be out of reach.

Diablo - I see you REEELEY like Ivey and that's cool. I watched an interview of him and I was quoting pretty much what he said. He said he was coming in 2nd & 3rd lately and really needed a big win. He wasn't happy with his play. His words not mine. I also watched him play a WPT tournament and he was bluffed off best hand several times. He did finally win it tho with a big hand. I'm not saying he's not good, but not he doesn't do it for me like other players. We all have our likes and dislikes.

I agree with RAMMER about Daniel N. - he's fun to watch, plays really well and is an all around player.

My ultimate fav for just being a great guy is - Barry Greenstein! He gives his winnings to charity. That would be my ultimate goal of winning ... to give back a little.

Yes, this list is the top 20, in order, as far as the betting goes. Daniel is 20/1 fav. The prices are to get to the final table, not win it.

Ted Forrest is the best player on the list, by far in my humble opinion.
I would replace Gus Hansen with Todd Brunson, he just won his first bracelet and he is playing great, and kills the cash games as well.
I would replace Vaswani with Mark Gregorich, he's the best Omaha h/l player alive, and Cardplayer's editor. Both guys are contributors to Doyle's Super System 2, so seriously these guys are elite, watch for them.
Bill

I'm no fan boy of Ivey, I am just in awe of the man. And I don't pick him to win the main event. Also negreanu isn't even close to winning player of the year again, He has yet to make a final table apprearance at this years WSOP and not a single cash. He also stated in his blog that the event is losing some of its appeal to him, and he may just not have his heart in it. Sure all that will go out the window when he gears up for the main event, but that one event isn't going to win him POTY.

Also, Bill, I think that list may be the top 20 pros to take the main event, which would explain why Gregorich isn't on there. He's an Omaha specialist. And I would (IMHO) not remove Hansen for T. Brunson, I would argue to make the list 21, if I couldn't, I would rather keep Hansen over Todd Brunson. I think of it like this, if I had to pick a fantasy team, who would I rather have as an alternate? Hansen or Doyles boy. Short answer, Hansen. But, we all have our opinions. As a matter of fact I have a smashing idea, look in the Poker General section for a new thread, lets make this years WSOP interesting. I know you'll be game Bill.

Just thought of another player not listed and that's - Antonio Esfandiari. I love watching him play in his stocking feet! LOL

when is the WSOP on tv? i havent caught any of it yet....

Televised in August I believe.

Rammer,


I think you are way off the mark about POTY. Mr N is yet to make a final table appearance. Allen Cunningham on the other hand has one a bracelet and been on 2 other final tables. Mark Seif now has 2 bracelets and is leading the standings.

Mr N has a long way to come back as his current standing is 228 with a grand total of $3665.

Rumour has it, that the next time he makes a final table on the WPT, he'll be able to pull out a red card and ask for advice from Jennifer Tilley.

Hey -2222-, Rammer is way off on Nagreanu and back to back POTY awards. Allen Cunningham is over $1 Mil for the series already and has a good head of steam, he's no joke. Negreanu has even posted on his own blog about his disdain for the expansion of the WSOP and the structures of some of the events (boo hoo).

Don't get me wrong, I think Negreanu is a great player that had an awesome run of cards, some luck, and some talent, and it made him famous. Good for him. But POTY again? No way. He almost didn't win it last year, he squeaked it out with a win in the last tournament of the season. Not taking anything away from him, but no way is he going to repeat. As I stated earlier in this thread, no final tables as of yet in the WSOP...doesn't bode well.

-2222-, looks like you keep up with stuff to the same degree as I do. Have you been watching the cardplayer interviews?

*EDIT*
I meant to comment on the Jennifer Tilly red card....Swish! That was hellarious.

Diablo,


I love it all. Wish I was there. I suggested to Nick that there should be a WSOP section on Cardschat during the tourney but he didn't go for it.

I even wrote an article about the 2nd day and planned to do an occasional series but there didn't seem to be any interest so I let it go.

I love the Phil Gordon podcast...if you haven't heard it, you can find it on expertinsight.com

Other than that, I search google news every chance I get....it's great to see young Doyle again = Jonny Chan's record. 10 each and still counting. Amazing!

This year has been legendary, and I mentioned the same thing to Nick...I maybe can get his attention on the matter....you and I could split it up and do parts of each of it. That would be killer. Phil Gordons podcast is great. I will PM you shortly about an idea I have. What do you think about a low stakes buy-in fantasy team for the WSOP? I got the idea somewhere else but I have some refinement ideas of my own. Something small like 5 bucks each. With 20 ppl we could have a 75 dollar first place price, and 25 for second or something like that. Ill start a thread in general if you think there will be interest.