greenokom
Enthusiast
Silver Level
It seems strange to me. In this situation the player gets information for free, though not his fault, but I think it's unfair not to share the information with other players.
t1riel
Legend
Silver Level
To me, it depends on the player. If the guy is a real douchebag or annoying player, I say nothing and benefit. If he is a novice player, I might say something like "make sure you protect your cards so nobody can see them." Most times, I say nothing. It's their fault they can't cover their cards.
fletchdad
Jammin................
Loyaler
Always protect your cards, if you dont, it doesent matter what happens, its your fault. They are your cards. Protect them or suffer the consequences.
As far as sharing the info with others, I am not clear on why you think this. Player B sees Player A's cards, cause Player A had not protected them. So now Player B knows Player A's card. So to be fair to the others (as well as crushing any chance Player A may still have in this hand) Player B should announce what Player A has???????? If Player A allows the rest of the table to look, ok, but otherwise I dont follow this line of thought.......
As far as sharing the info with others, I am not clear on why you think this. Player B sees Player A's cards, cause Player A had not protected them. So now Player B knows Player A's card. So to be fair to the others (as well as crushing any chance Player A may still have in this hand) Player B should announce what Player A has???????? If Player A allows the rest of the table to look, ok, but otherwise I dont follow this line of thought.......
T
The_Pup
Rock Star
Silver Level
I assume you mean the cards are dealt in such a way that A's cards are on the table in such a way that B picks them up thinking they are his.
I can't find a specific rule covering this situation so I think we'd just have to do what seems most sensible. If there has been action by no more than one player then a redeal would make sense; if there has been action then player A could play B's cards. If player B, on realising their mistake, then look at their own cards as well before a ruling can be made I would rule B's cards dead and let A play their original cards. (Once the error is discovered all play should stop pending a decision.)
I can't find a specific rule covering this situation so I think we'd just have to do what seems most sensible. If there has been action by no more than one player then a redeal would make sense; if there has been action then player A could play B's cards. If player B, on realising their mistake, then look at their own cards as well before a ruling can be made I would rule B's cards dead and let A play their original cards. (Once the error is discovered all play should stop pending a decision.)
wolfie
Legend
Silver Level
there are no specific rules about it !
but this rule is used here in the casino.
a) in ring games player B hand is death and player a plays his own cards.
this because its player B mistake to take player A cards .
b) same in a tourny player B also get a 10 min penalty for looking
another players hand.
the intention is that its not players a fault to not protect his cards but its
players b fault to take another players hand !
its logic also !
if not this way handled players will soon start grabbing other players hands
that are not protected quickly enough !!
but this rule is used here in the casino.
a) in ring games player B hand is death and player a plays his own cards.
this because its player B mistake to take player A cards .
b) same in a tourny player B also get a 10 min penalty for looking
another players hand.
the intention is that its not players a fault to not protect his cards but its
players b fault to take another players hand !
its logic also !
if not this way handled players will soon start grabbing other players hands
that are not protected quickly enough !!
wolfie
Legend
Silver Level
totally wrong !
never your fault if you not quick enough to protect your cards .
they are yours, others should stay off them.
rules are clear about it saying each player get dealt 2 cards, player looks
in his cards and plays with those !
no where it says : player looks at all unprotected cards and plays his own hand,
or players : must protect their hands otherwise other may look at them.
fletchdad
Jammin................
Loyaler
I was assuming it was not a case of one player rushing to pick up anther's cards. He stated that the cards were already dealt. When the table is dealt, each player must assume responsibility for protecting his or her cards. (I was also under the impression that even if the table was still being dealt, you must make sure the card(s) you have are protected,I am not sure what the rule is while the cards are still being dealt) I was also not saying players should look at all unprotected hands. (dont really know where you picked that up....) I also did not say it was ok for other players to look at unprotected hands. (dont know where you got that either)
It is a players responsibility to protect his cards. There is always a chance to get a ruling, or in a home game to let the table decide if the hand should be re-dealt, but if you do not protect your cards, you may be out of luck if something happens to your cards that you dont want. Its like if you throw a $500 in and meant to throw a $50 in, too bad, you have to leave it in. You take responsibility for your chips, cards, calls etc.
If other players start picking up unprotected cards on purpose, they will be soon thrown out of the game. You seem to think I was saying this is ok, and I dont understand how you got this context out of what I said. Maybe because I was commenting on another poster saying the player who saw the cards should share this info with the table, which I very strongly dis-agreed with, and I gave an example stating if one player WANTS to show his cards to everyone, which was obviously meant sarcastically.
edit:
http://www.wsop.com/poker-rules/ see Irregularities point 2.
Here almost the same, worded different: http://www.wsop.com/poker-games/texas-holdem/rules/
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t1riel
Legend
Silver Level
Oh, I read it wrong. In that case, I believe it should be a misdeal.
not kidding either
aikindoma
Rock Star
Silver Level
...then you would like that all other players on the table get to know the cards too...?
That's (to be nice) not very smart..., and unfair to the one who accidentally showed his cards.
He might like to play, no matter what...!!!
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
My gut feeling would be to call a misdeal mostly because 1: I work corporate events, not in a casino, and therefore I come across very few rules nits but more importantly 2: the hand will have no doubt degenerated into such a shambles by this stage that I'll be left with no real choice.
This is a weird situation though, and I don't think it's really dealt with adequately by the rules. For example, it doesn't fall into any of the categories where Robert's Rules say you can call a misdeal so my gut reaction would, it seems, be wrong.
It kind of falls under Irregularities rule 12, which says that a card flashed by a player must be played (ie: it won't be replaced like it would be if it was exposed through dealer error), though I know that rule is intended for cards flashed or exposed by a player in their own hand, not necessarily someone else exposing a card from their hand.
Note also that the rules cited by fletchdad don't address the situation adequately either because they talk about the player having no redress if your hand is fouled or accidentally killed. This hand hasn't been accidentally killed though. Whether it's been "fouled" depends on your definition - I've always assumed it meant a hand where someone has folded their own hand near yours and you can no longer tell whose hand is whose any more... though thanks to this post I've actually looked at the definitions and Robert's Rules unhelpfully defines "fouled hand" as "a dead hand", which is irritating circular logic and doesn't help us. Suffice to say the rule doesn't give us a clear answer and if applied would actually be in contradiction of Irregularities 12.
Lastly, Player B's actual hand shouldn't be killed because it doesn't meet any of the criteria for being a dead hand.
So... congratulations. Unless someone can find something that I've missed in the rules, OP has dug up a situation that exists in a fuzzy grey area between several rules and isn't properly addressed by any of them.
If a TD or floor manager was called over to make a ruling on the situation, I expect it'd go something like this:
- Player A's hand would have to be exposed to the rest of the table, since one player has seen it through error and the rest of the table shouldn't be denied that information.
- Player A will then almost certainly have to fold when it's their turn to act since the whole table has seen their hand now. It sucks and it's no fault of their own, but them's the breaks.
- The rest of the table plays the hand out as normal. Player B may or may not get a penalty at the end of the hand.
This is a weird situation though, and I don't think it's really dealt with adequately by the rules. For example, it doesn't fall into any of the categories where Robert's Rules say you can call a misdeal so my gut reaction would, it seems, be wrong.
It kind of falls under Irregularities rule 12, which says that a card flashed by a player must be played (ie: it won't be replaced like it would be if it was exposed through dealer error), though I know that rule is intended for cards flashed or exposed by a player in their own hand, not necessarily someone else exposing a card from their hand.
Note also that the rules cited by fletchdad don't address the situation adequately either because they talk about the player having no redress if your hand is fouled or accidentally killed. This hand hasn't been accidentally killed though. Whether it's been "fouled" depends on your definition - I've always assumed it meant a hand where someone has folded their own hand near yours and you can no longer tell whose hand is whose any more... though thanks to this post I've actually looked at the definitions and Robert's Rules unhelpfully defines "fouled hand" as "a dead hand", which is irritating circular logic and doesn't help us. Suffice to say the rule doesn't give us a clear answer and if applied would actually be in contradiction of Irregularities 12.
Lastly, Player B's actual hand shouldn't be killed because it doesn't meet any of the criteria for being a dead hand.
So... congratulations. Unless someone can find something that I've missed in the rules, OP has dug up a situation that exists in a fuzzy grey area between several rules and isn't properly addressed by any of them.
If a TD or floor manager was called over to make a ruling on the situation, I expect it'd go something like this:
- Player A's hand would have to be exposed to the rest of the table, since one player has seen it through error and the rest of the table shouldn't be denied that information.
- Player A will then almost certainly have to fold when it's their turn to act since the whole table has seen their hand now. It sucks and it's no fault of their own, but them's the breaks.
- The rest of the table plays the hand out as normal. Player B may or may not get a penalty at the end of the hand.
fletchdad
Jammin................
Loyaler
D
dan abnormal
Legend
Platinum Level
Living in Florida we have a bunch of retiress just looking to spend their life saving at my local card room and one night I was playing and this old lady just kept talking to me non stop, stuff like people think there is skill to this game and its all luck, stuff like this. TO top it off regardless if I was in the hand or not, she would honestly tell me what she was holding, Now some people have told me that the hand should stop right there and she would of been automatically out of the hand. But the reads she was giving me was too much, I had AJs and the board hits a flop with a K and the lady goes Im playing BIG SLICK "DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT IS" I played dumb and said youre playing a 42 and folded my hand LOL
M
manvspoker
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Yes the hand goes on, its not a misdeal. I actually had this the other night happen at the poker room I play at. I just got moved to a new table and the player next to me when they look at their cards I can clearly see them and so can the person on his other side. So I folded and when the hand was over, I leaned in and told the guy that he needs to cover his cards more when he looks at them as I could see him and the player next to him could also. He thanked for me the tip but the guy on his other side just glared at me as he was pissed I told him.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
The way I read the situation in the OP, I assumed Player B had physically picked up Player A's cards and looked at them, mistaking them for his own hand. Slightly different situation.
W
Will Gotti
Rising Star
Bronze Level
I had this exact thing happen at a recent cash game. Some guy comes and takes his seat and immediately bends his cards just as they're dealt to check his hand. I was trying to give him room to sit down and whatnot and just so happened to look down not trying to look at his hand at all. The person on the other side couldn't have seen this guy's hand though. Pre-flop I had a low unsuited hand and was planning on folding anyways. Guy raises with his two high cards and I fold and action proceeds.
I felt bad so afterward I told him he needed to cover his hand better and I wasn't trying to look. It just happened as he sat down and I caught a glimpse. He asked me his hand, I told him and let him know I was planning on folding anyways. He gave me a weird look at first and mumbled about how could I look at his cards. I said hey I didn't have to tell you what I knew and a dishonest person wouldn't have told you shit. He quickly calmed down and seemed to be cool.