I am a dealer in a popular casino. I have a scenerio i would like comments on
heads up players all in flops out and one of the players shows his hand to the other player and says you won you have the ace. There were two pair on board.He never tables his card He then tosses them face up to the much gets up and leaves. I muck his hand and push the pot to the live hand. He then realizes that he hand the wining hand...the floor comes to my table and I tell him what happenned..The floor tells me I should have read his hand The floor actually makes the other player give him the money back..Comments please..was I wrong?
As a fellow dealer.... Cards speak my friend! If the cards are tabled face up then it is our responsibility as the dealer to read the hand. Even if the cards are tossed towards the muck, as long as they clearly identifiable then it is a tabled hand.
If you had any questions whatsoever during the hand in a situation like this then it is ALWAYS best to immediately call the floor. As a dealer are supposed to enforce the rules, not make rulings or make judgement calls. That's the floor's responsibility.
thanks for your reply really do appreciate,,,but not the middle of the table..one was on the muck the other next to the muck...he definitely threw to the muck
If he threw the cards face up towards the muck then the hand is tabled and therefore the cards speak. His hand is not dead.
From my understanding, if the cards hit the muck they are dead. It is the player's responsibility to protect their cards. It is difficult to get into "intention" of the player, such as someone may say, well he turned them up, they should be read, and someone might then say, well he turned them up, but was intentionally aiming for the muck when he turned them up and threw them in, intending to kill his hand... I cannot speak on dealer responsibilities, such as if you are supposed to be protecting the muck pile from incidents such as this. In any case, I don't think this is uncommon, and so I would be surprised if a room manager did not already have a default ruling to turn to in these instances.
This is actually incorrect (generally).
If the cards 'touch' the muck but are clearly identifiable then the floor can retrieve the hand and it is not head. However, if the hand is IN the muck and mixed up, then you are approaching judgement call territory but typically at that point the hand would be considered dead (though I have seen situations where this was not the case but that is not considered usual).
Also, per your "intention" part of the post... It is irrelevant because as soon as a player tables his hand face up, it is the dealer's responsibility to properly read the hand because cards speak for themselves.
We all make mistakes, and that was a mistake. Whether the cards hit the muck pile or not, and regardless of what the players say, if the cards are turned face up, The Cards Speak For Themselves and the dealer should Always read the cards.
This is correct.
It is the dealer's call.
I was in a game and holding 2 spades the Ace and another.
On the turn, I caught the nut flush.
On the river, the guy sitting across from me went all in and I called. He stood up and says "you got the ace?"
I turned over the Ace and he threw his hole cards, face up, into the muck, and said nice hand and turned to leave.
The dealer then read his cards and he had a straight flush and didn't realize it. The pot was awarded to him.
It is not the dealer's call at all. The dealer cannot make a judgement call on whether to read a hand that has been tabled face up (regardless of if it hit the muck) because the dealer HAS to read a hand that has been tabled face up.
If a player argued or contested this, then at that point it would be the
floor's call on whether the hand is dead or not. The dealer should
never make a judgement call like that.
If he mucks his hand then its too late, the pot goes to the other player by default irrespective of hand strength.
Will teach him to wait next time.
This is incorrect.
If the player throws his hand to the muck
face up then it is incorrect because the hand would be considered tabled at that point and is live.
If the player throws his hand to the muck face down and then immediately yells out HEY WAIT I THINK I HAD THE WINNING HAND then the hand can still be turned face up and tabled so long as the cards are identifiable.
If the player throws his hand to the muck face down, and then immediately yells out HEY WAIT I THINK I HAD THE WINNING HAND but the dealer has already mixed the hand into the muck,
typically then the hand would be considered unidentifiable and dead. At the point, the floor would be called to make a ruling on the hand being dead.
However, I have seen the floor called in this exact situation. The floor asked the player to name their two specific cards and the floor had the dealer search through the muck to see if the two cards were in there in order to table the hand. The hand was considered tabled and the pot awarded to the player with that hand. This is was a highly unusual situation and I myself, personally, did not agree with that ruling.
It should be important to note that in reality every poker room has different rules and ultimately rulings/decisions like these come down to the floor person making a call on the situation.
If he mucks (tosses the cards in face down) the pot would go to the other player. But if he turned them face up, it is not considered a "muck". Having them face up makes all the difference.
This is not exactly correct. Read my posts above.