Am I right to be mad about this?

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rphilli72

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I play every Friday night with a group of friends. Dealer's choice.

Tonight, I got really ticked off about a hand and I would like to hear some outside opinions.

The game: King Little - 5 card draw pot game where K's and lowest card in your hand are wild. Game ends when only one person plays for the pot or it's folded around to the dealer.

The pot: Fairly large.

Player A loses a couple of large pots previous in same game. Discussion ensued as to whether pot should just be split and move on - it had grown exponentially. Player A was the only objector and didn't even have the money to pay his previous loss (the "pot" was his IOU). Player B acted just before player A and they are buddy buddy.

So, we play another round for the pot and it is folded around to player B. Player B decides to play in third to last position. Player A folds and, if the final player folds, player B wins the pot and game over. The last player folds and says "I have a good hand, but I fold so they can 'settle up'." Meaning the IOU will just be ignored and it was. Normally the final player would call in that situation - I guaranteed it. Player B is not really a good poker player at all.

Anyway, I got irate bc that played out to me like some sort of collusion and certainly something less than a real poker hand i.e. people trying to help player A cut their losses. It was a large pot so that sort of manipulation was pretty easy. Besides, nobody at the table had the dough on them to cover the pot in the first place.

So, any thoughts or opinions out there?

I objected and left the game.
 
fletchdad

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Thoughts and opinions? Yep.

Dont play regular games with friends without establishing the rules. Sounds like friends trying to not play serious poker, but out to have fun and not break each other. (King little???? That tells you everything right there)

Home games among friends, well, you need to establish some ground rules or this will just BE a rule: We do what we want when we want......
 
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rphilli72

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I think it got to 400+. That is the outer limits of what we ever get to - ever.
 
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rphilli72

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I know where you are coming from Fletchdad. If actual money had been in the pot, and player A just lost, so be it.

That whole situation played out like a mercy rule. I've never seen anyone let off the hook in our game before like that. I certainly never have been.

So, when you are saying "yep" - you think I had a right to be ticked off?
 
Grossberger

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Why not just split the pot? So only what the "broke" player puts in is all he can win from the other players? I'm never playing a game that allows "IOU's".

Had a similar but different situation years ago. Playing Acey Duecy, if not familiar with this game you put down 2 cards and bet that the next card falls between the 2 cards, you can bet upto whats in the middle, if it falls in between you win what you bet, if it falls outside then you owe the amount you bet and if the card matches one of the other cards you owe double your bet. Usually if you get A-2 you bet pot because its likely to fall between but your screwed if it matches. Anyway player get K-2 so only a matched card or Ace would screw him he does not have enough to cover if he bets pot and loses, but he turns to a buddy and says "can you cover me if I lose?" his buddy says yes. He bets pot and wins the $800+ pot. There was some discussion afterward if he should be allowed to bet if he can't cover, I said as long as someone covers I could care less.

Bottom line never allow IOU'S
 
pifan

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my opinion if it is a friendly game keep it friendly, you would do things you normally wouldnt do in a serious game. if it is a serious game and he is a poor player give him some leeway you want him to come back, dont chase him away if he were a good player, that situation would not come up. get my point.
 
tenbob

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I can never for the life of me figure out why people still play games with no table stakes.

Play for the amount of money visible and on the table. Any other way opens the game up for massive collusion and cheating.
 
Arjonius

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While what happened may still be objectionable for other reasons, unless there was prior agreement among the people who supposedly colluded, it's not collusion.
 
mange1234

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Don't get mad

rphilli72 said:
I play every Friday night with a group of friends. Dealer's choice.

Tonight, I got really ticked off about a hand and I would like to hear some outside opinions.

The game: King Little - 5 card draw pot game where K's and lowest card in your hand are wild. Game ends when only one person plays for the pot or it's folded around to the dealer.

The pot: Fairly large.

Player A loses a couple of large pots previous in same game. Discussion ensued as to whether pot should just be split and move on - it had grown exponentially. Player A was the only objector and didn't even have the money to pay his previous loss (the "pot" was his IOU). Player B acted just before player A and they are buddy buddy.

So, we play another round for the pot and it is folded around to player B. Player B decides to play in third to last position. Player A folds and, if the final player folds, player B wins the pot and game over. The last player folds and says "I have a good hand, but I fold so they can 'settle up'." Meaning the IOU will just be ignored and it was. Normally the final player would call in that situation - I guaranteed it. Player B is not really a good poker player at all.

Anyway, I got irate bc that played out to me like some sort of collusion and certainly something less than a real poker hand i.e. people trying to help player A cut their losses. It was a large pot so that sort of manipulation was pretty easy. Besides, nobody at the table had the dough on them to cover the pot in the first place.

So, any thoughts or opinions out there?

I objected and left the game.
Click to expand...

Hey RP,

There are no buddies at the poker table. Be ruthless and aggressive as possible while at the tables. And, pick up the friendship away from the poker table. lol

Getting "mad" is probable a form of " tilt" Some players have a tactic where they purposely angry the other plays to get them angry. Hoping that in instilling anger in other players, they will not play their best game, and emotions, instead of logic rule the day.

And, if you suspect collusion, you need to find another game or find some new friends. lol

Good luck on and off the felts.

Mike
 
MediaBLITZ

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Collusion would require the agreement of two or more players before the action. The way you describe it is ONE players impromptu action that has you bent out of shape. Sounds like he may have soft played his buddy - which can be very irritating. I say MAY HAVE. You are just going by what he said and didn't see his hand. Just because he said he had a good hand doesn't make it so. I have certainly said this Hold Em before while sitting there with 72o. He could very well have said that just to mess with heads or even just to come off as a magnanimous benefactor of good will. I don't fault you for your stand (I agree it was probably bullshit) but you probably over-reacted by walking out. But like Fletch said - you gotta establish the rules BEFORE infractions happen. But what rule is going to stop someone from saying they have a hand and folding?
You should be more upset that Lisa shoved aces full of threes :)
I for one would not be playing with that guy in the future. My similar situation was two buddy buddy guys in a small home tourney. They are the only two in the hand and it goes to the river. Player A shoves (had player B covered). Player B pauses in thought - eyes light up and he grabs his stack to put it in and Player A reaches over with his hand, stops him, says "Don't call, I have the nuts." and flips his hand over and then scoops the pot. They both finished 1-2 and chopped the winnings. I cannot blame Player B - it was the action of one guy and not collusion, but I will not play with that guy ever again.
 
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rphilli72

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Yeah, I lost 120 bucks playing Acey Duecey last night on K-3. There was one 3 remaining in the deck with seven cards left. All other cards remaining, I win. Of course, I hit the 3. I hate that game!

BTW, there aren't many games of poker I haven't played or don't know...lol. I don't know if that is a good thing.

Back to my original question. Thanks for the responses! I objected to us even continuing playing when people couldn't cover at the table. That makes no sense to me, which ended up with an IOU on the table and the subsequent farce of a hand. I called it collusion bc to me the final player and player B were in synch with their choices although technically not pre-arranged. In any event, it wasn't a real poker hand with real risk and reward.

I'll just say I saw some borderline play earlier from player's A and B. Stuff that could be considered coaching during hands.

Our game while not fanatically serious usually follows the rules of poker to a T, but not last night. I got annoyed and left.
 
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Swickster007

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Friends playing poker will always have a little leeway to it. I understand why you got mad but its typical to see a friendly move when playing at a round of friends. I would just set a stake limit for now on and avoid IOUs to keep the game fun
 
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