60 Minutes on Poker - Absolute Poker / Ultimate Bet Scandal

This Sunday it seems 60 Minutes on CBS will air an episode about Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet and their "cheating scandal".

Some pretty wild claims are set out in this program such as online poker is "illegal", that will spread FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) to the masses.

This is likely to be very bad press for the Poker industry, but it may help in terms of moving forward towards regulation in the future.

Video preview here: http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=4633262&channel=60Minutes

Well, we all know what we'll be watching this Sunday!

Thanks for sharing this. I will definately watch this. It sure feels like I have played with some of these so called graycats.

herestoya said:

Thanks for sharing this. I will definately watch this. It sure feels like I have played with some of these so called graycats.

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lol unless you were playing high-stakes HU cash (ie $10knl or higher) you weren't.

To the topic, it does seem like they are focusing on the actual uncovering of the cheating, but lol at them claiming UB/AP were two of the most popular sites and implying unregulated is a bad thing. I trust Stars with my money far more than I do with any government-regulated bank right now.

Anyway, if this airs making false claims such as online poker is illegal in the US I hope the PPA will file a lawsuit or something at least to get some publicity on the fact that they are just plain wrong.

i am very anxioius to watch this..saw its ad on tv today and im anxious to see what they ahve to say about it..my bet is they smash online poker to how bad it is..

Nick said:

This Sunday it seems 60 Minutes on CBS will air an episode about Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet and their "cheating scandal".

Some pretty wild claims are set out in this program such as online poker is "illegal", that will spread FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) to the masses.

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I would suggest the the main thrust of the show will not be a "claim", it will be the fact that there was cheating going on. And it was built right into the software at the earliest stages of development.

Just like I figured.

And now we know about two serious cases in which they got caught. I suspect there will be many more over the years. They'll be more subtle, though. It won't be something as silly as the relative number of AAs dealt versus other hands.

No, it will be little software routines. Things like: let the guy in seat 3 win this hand with 88. Or: identify a player by his poker profile, and his betting habits, initiate routine B (deal him all low cards, etc). Subtle stuff. Little routines laying there in the code, waiting patiently for the time when they will be put to use (assuming they aren't already in use).

The funniest thing about this whole scandal is the fact that the Kahnawake Gaming Commission is "issuing a report". That's rather humorous.

I guess this is why many people are so guarded. You should be confident ure cash is safe. Thats why I won't fool around with my money.

the funny thing about the episode was how they mentioned stuff everyone in the online poker world already knows... and they presented it like noone knew and that it was a surprise

I wonder which anti-poker groups sponsored that show?

p0cketAz said:

the funny thing about the episode was how they mentioned stuff everyone in the online poker world already knows... and they presented it like noone knew and that it was a surprise

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That may be true, but I think it was worth hearing pro Todd Witteles say this on TV for all to hear, because it sums up what we're up against. It doesn't prove anything that he would say this, but it illustrates the dillemma.

The interviewer was asking him some basic questions about online poker. Todd started out talking about what was cool about it, like most of us think, and then he was asked about how you don't get to look at your opponents like in live play. His answer:

"Not only are you not looking at your opponents, you're not looking at the cards being dealt, you're not looking at who's dealing them to you. So, you don't know if the whole thing is legitimate, even if all the players sitting with you are just as legitimate as you are. Maybe the whole game isn't," Witteles says.

I think many of us have had these same thoughts, so it doesn't help things to have these scandals come out.

Flushbuster said:

I wonder which anti-poker groups sponsored that show?

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I don't think the show was "anti-poker" at all. It was just laying out the shadowy world of online poker, and the infastructure it uses, and how no one gets prosecuted because, as Annie Duke says:

"In the first place, how do you prove who was actually sitting at the computer, even if you know where the computer is (like at pro Russ Hamilton's house, for instance).

And in the second place, who's going to prosecute them? In what jurisdiction?" {Annie Duke}

She's right. Even though they traced the cheating account back to Russ Hamilton's house, can anyone really prove it was him? And who's going to charge him?

But the bottom line is that we know it happened, and like Todd Witteles said, these guys got caught because they played using "donk" playing styles, and winning astronomically more hands than is conceivable using that type of play. Todd asks, how would we know if there are guys out there, who also can see hole cards, but instead of playing like a donk, winning every hand, what if they played smartly, and subtley. How would anyone know? How do we know it's not still going on at UB, AB and a bunch of other poker sites?

I agree, how do we know?

one of the reasons the names were protected was cus the lawyers had it put in as part of their confession agreement clause makes ya wonder if it was some of their sponsored top pros involved just not wanting their name "smeared" especially since mark seif was accused of this same thing a few years ago and hes one of their biggest sponsored pros.........i dont know ..........but kinda makes ya wonder huh????????????.............the tourney that was in question on absolute was a 1k buy in a guy by the name "potripper" was found to have access and be able to see every hole card of every table he played he was makin some downright "its like he seen my cards" calls and thats what stirred the investigation he made a crazy 10 high call on the final hand of heads u in this tourney knowin the other guy missed his flush you can see it on youtube.com search "potripper" or "absolute poker scandal" many players in this tourney suspected him of cheating and requested hand history of the whole tourney they found they were right the guy was a roomate of jared "thewacokid" hamby who helped in busting the idiot turned out he had the ip addresses of every player involved in the tourney.

Can't say I'm suprised. . .people are always alleging the activities that people like are illegal and should be distrupted in some fashion. They should let well enough alone and allow the people to manage their money while enjoying gambling like most of us do.

kknutt17 said:

Can't say I'm suprised. . .people are always alleging the activities that people like are illegal and should be distrupted in some fashion. They should let well enough alone and allow the people to manage their money while enjoying gambling like most of us do.

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Wait a minute, we all enjoy gambling. That's not the point. Yeah, I'll enjoy the hell out of it if it's honest. If there's cheating, though.......well, that's a whole 'nuther thing. Just the fact that there's an "Internet" version of poker, doesn't change that fact.

hummmm

That is crazy I jsut do not knwo how people can sleep at night knowing they stole all that money from people by seeing there cards... what is the fun in that??