zoom and regular tables.

Hello guys I have a serious problem and I want to know if anyone has the same. I am a bordeline loser at NL5 zoom -2 bb/100 but I huge winner at regular tables (7 bb/100). Both are in a huge sample over 100k hands. Zoom sometimes tilts me super hard I get raised all the fu***ng time, raises that doesn't maek sense most of the time. Sometimes I fold sometimes I call. Anyway is there anyone here that gets tilted with zoom? I mean I tilt in a sense I am discussed in this game.

I don't have my correct statistics, so I can't say, but zoom tilt is more normal for me, I have to improve on that

I dont really see, why this is a problem? You have enough experience and data now to make an informed decision to not play Zoom. I arrived at the same conclusion almost a year ago. Regular tables are better for a variety of reasons:

1) They appeal less to grinders.
2) They appeal more to fish.
3) People play more hands (boredom).
4) People limp more preflop.
5) Its easier to get reads and make individual adjustments.
6) You can tilt a fish (history and dynamic).
7) You can table and seat select.

fundiver199 said:

I dont really see, why this is a problem? You have enough experience and data now to make an informed decision to not play Zoom. I arrived at the same conclusion almost a year ago. Regular tables are better for a variety of reasons:

1) They appeal less to grinders.
2) They appeal more to fish.
3) People play more hands (boredom).
4) People limp more preflop.
5) Its easier to get reads and make individual adjustments.
6) You can tilt a fish (history and dynamic).
7) You can table and seat select.

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I agree to that but I see every serious grinder plays zoom. I have not seen anyone play regular tables.

Babis VGS said:

I agree to that but I see every serious grinder plays zoom. I have not seen anyone play regular tables.

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There are certainly a lot of regulars on normal tables as well. And even if that was not the case, I cant imagine anything more profitable than playing on a table full of only fish.

It sounds like, its almost some kind of honour / pride thing, that you feel, you must prove, you can beat Zoom. If that is the case, just get it out of your head. There is no bracelet for beating Zoom and especially not at a limit like 5NL. Nobody care about this other than yourself.

For me the only reason to even play 5NL is to get experience and build a bankroll, so that I can hopefully some day play limits, where the money matter at least a little bit. Like maybe 50NL. And if playing Zoom does not help me build me bankroll, it does not help me reach my goal. For me its pretty much as simple as that.

One of the things to remember here is, that there is a very high rake in the micros. So even if you are the best regular at 5NL, unless there are fish in the game, you are likely going to lose in the long run. Its entirely possible, that 5NL Zoom or 10NL Zoom are not even beatable any more except for people, who get lucky over a small or medium sized sample.

fundiver199 said:

There are certainly a lot of regulars on normal tables as well. And even if that was not the case, I cant imagine anything more profitable than playing on a table full of only fish.

It sounds like, its almost some kind of honour / pride thing, that you feel, you must prove, you can beat Zoom. If that is the case, just get it out of your head. There is no bracelet for beating Zoom and especially not at a limit like 5NL. Nobody care about this other than yourself.

For me the only reason to even play 5NL is to get experience and build a bankroll, so that I can hopefully some day play limits, where the money matter at least a little bit. Like maybe 50NL. And if playing Zoom does not help me build me bankroll, it does not help me reach my goal. For me its pretty much as simple as that.

One of the things to remember here is, that there is a very high rake in the micros. So even if you are the best regular at 5NL, unless there are fish in the game, you are likely going to lose in the long run. Its entirely possible, that 5NL Zoom or 10NL Zoom are not even beatable any more except for people, who get lucky over a small or medium sized sample.

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Yes that's my problem! I always think I HAVE TO beat NL5 or NL10 zoom etc because if I dont I am a fish. Maybe that's the truth though. I totally believe they are beatable. I think some players like us are more suitable for regular tables.

Do you think at NL50 and above zoom and regular tables are the same though?

I have not played Zoom higher than 16NL and regular tables higher than 25-30NL, so I cant really say anything about, how 50NL play. But seriously. Get this idea, that you “must” beat 5NL Zoom, out of your head. If your winrate is negative 2BB/100, that is actually something like +6BB/100 before rake, depending on your playing style, so you are already beating the other players just not the rake.

If you have played 100k hands at regular 5NL tables with a winrate of 7 BB / 100, then you are more than ready for 10NL, and maybe soon also 25NL. So make it a goal to move up rather than become the best 5NL Zoom player in the world. And just ignore all those videos on Youtube, where someone claim, that they “crush” Zoom. They are likely only sharing their sunshine runs and not the downswings, and again who care.

If you have really big ambitions in poker, there is no way around transferring to live poker at some point, because this is where, the big money is today. The high stakes online scene has been slowly dying for almost 10 years, and it is not going to make a resurgence. Zoom does not exist live, and why spend time practicing a game format, you are not going to be playing in the long run, if your poker dreams come true.

Zoom can ok as a training tool, if you are new to poker, and want to work on your baseline without distractions. But 100k hands is more than enough practicing baseline, and especially if the format tilt you, then why spend more time playing it. Just move on and leave it behind.

Play regular tables if you win there. I think getting paid is more important than playing more hands.

As for the tilt, you mention, I can very much relate to it. When I played Zoom, I sometimes got this feeling, that I was facing an unreasonable amount of aggression. I think, part of this is due to the fact, that Zoom games are simply a bit more aggressive. This is the result of less fish and more grinders, and perhaps also some grinders using overaggression, because its easier to get away with it in Zoom.

I also think, there is a psychological part about it though. The hands happen faster, so the time between running into the top of somebodys range is shorter, which can make it feel like, you are getting raised far to often. To me it also makes it more tilting, that the player is gone after the hand, because it makes it so difficult to pick up reads. Tilt issues are something, we can work on mentally, and perhaps doing so could improve your Zoom results with a few BB / 100. But again whats the point, if Zoom does not help you reach your long term goals in poker.

I just believe that most of the time grinders in zoom are super aggresive without a reason. And I cannot pick up reads at this huge pool. On NL50+ pools are definitely smaller so you understand players more. Anyway I agree on you I am ready for NL10 reg tables at least. I should get rid of the sensation that I MUST beat NL5 zoom.
Also how is beatable if every single guy I saw before 2 years still play there? I mean the hyper aggresion maybe it isn't so profitable after all