Thoughts on this call?

10/.25 Bovada (zoom)
I have 13.60 (I buy in short at this level) and am in the BB. Villain has $43+ on the button.

V raises to .75 (button)
SB folds
Hero calls with 88 (BB) (pot $1.60)

Flop--10 7 5 rainbow.

I check the flop with intention to check raise. Villain jams all in.

I'm curious who folds and why and who calls and why. I'll post results in a couple of days for those who are interested.

thanks for all replies.

We have a whole forum for hand analysis.

I think reraising pre is not a bad way to go here. Actually short stacked its the way to go. don't call.

your short stacked so after you 3bet preflop shove the flop.

Unless you know he is super aggressive i wouldn't call without at least top/over pair

call with the middle pair is not a mistake.First, it will get some infomation from action of the button. Second,prevent the middle pair if the button want to hit the high pair or others.

What's your read on the villain? Agree that calling is a huge mistake. I would have jammed the flop. As played, most likely I would folded to his shove.

Don't buy in short

Um, I not asking HOW to play the hand. I'm asking who would fold or call and WHY given this specific situation. Maybe I should lay out a couple bits of info then.

#1 there are NO reads on villain here. This is played on Bovada zoom or zone. (whatever they call it) every one is anonymous.
#2 I buy in for 50 BBs at this level because A. I'm not fully bankrolled for this level and I know it. B. There is hardly enough tables at .05/.10 on any given night to play. I get them when I can, but when I can't, I buy in light (50 BBs) at the next level. (I'd rather buy in for 100 BBs)
#3 After thinking more about this hand today, I find myself calling the all in MORE when I'm feeling good about how I'm playing. More focused and relaxed and such. When I am not feeling as good about my play, I will lay this down.

#3 is the what and why I'm looking for here from other players.

Please ask more questions if this doesn't make sense.

I'd probably fold 9/10 times.

First I would fold because I didn't a read on the guy, I wouldn't know if he was bluffing or trying to make it look like a bluff inducing a call. Second there are about four types of hands he could have 1. Overpair. 2. Ace with high card 3. Top pair. 4. A complete bluff.

Considering the fact that he could beat me with 2 of those, and could outdraw you (we all know how online crap is) I would definitely fold. I like playing with what I have in these situations, I don't like a race.

if it's zoom poker, "calling for information" is useless. Player tendencies are likely unkown. I hate zoom poker for this reason.

I wouldn't call...save it for a better spot. Having said that...if your intention was to check raise - you should call.

crow27 said:

Um, I not asking HOW to play the hand. I'm asking who would fold or call and WHY given this specific situation. Maybe I should lay out a couple bits of info then.

#1 there are NO reads on villain here. This is played on Bovada zoom or zone. (whatever they call it) every one is anonymous.
#2 I buy in for 50 BBs at this level because A. I'm not fully bankrolled for this level and I know it. B. There is hardly enough tables at .05/.10 on any given night to play. I get them when I can, but when I can't, I buy in light (50 BBs) at the next level. (I'd rather buy in for 100 BBs)
#3 After thinking more about this hand today, I find myself calling the all in MORE when I'm feeling good about how I'm playing. More focused and relaxed and such. When I am not feeling as good about my play, I will lay this down.

#3 is the what and why I'm looking for here from other players.

Please ask more questions if this doesn't make sense.

Click to expand...

So you ARE asking how to play this hand? You make no sense and the call is obviously a horrible call only beating a bluff. This is how a villian would play a hand like JJ against a short stacker(weak player) and hope they call off with top pair. I really doubt many villians are shoving 52bb's in hopes of bluffing a 6.5bb pot.

With all that aside is calling 52bb's into a pot you got 2bb's invested in with middle pair ever a winning play? ESPECIALLY with no read on the villian? Your theory of calling if you are "playing" aka running good is a horrible way to make a decision and sounds more like a gambler than a poker player.

I am pretty curious about the hand/point of this thread though, it is a obviously standard fold. I am assuming you made the call and won the hand and this is possibly a subtle brag thread? Or you folded and for some strange reason feel like it was a bad fold?

If you folded, good job, if you called, bad job(rather you won the pot or not)

Easy fold. If I'm playing a short stack, it's with the intent of being aggressive, not of making rather questionable calls for my stack. And not being rolled for this level makes it more questionable, not less.

Zoom game is an exact game. Since we have only marginal hand here, Ill fold here instantly.

IPlay said:

So you ARE asking how to play this hand? You make no sense and the call is obviously a horrible call only beating a bluff. This is how a villian would play a hand like JJ against a short stacker(weak player) and hope they call off with top pair. I really doubt many villians are shoving 52bb's in hopes of bluffing a 6.5bb pot.

With all that aside is calling 52bb's into a pot you got 2bb's invested in with middle pair ever a winning play? ESPECIALLY with no read on the villian? Your theory of calling if you are "playing" aka running good is a horrible way to make a decision and sounds more like a gambler than a poker player.

I am pretty curious about the hand/point of this thread though, it is a obviously standard fold. I am assuming you made the call and won the hand and this is possibly a subtle brag thread? Or you folded and for some strange reason feel like it was a bad fold?

If you folded, good job, if you called, bad job(rather you won the pot or not)

Click to expand...

Maybe I should have put this in the analysis thread instead, but we're here now so.....

I really wasn't asking how to play the hand because I believe there are multiple ways to play this. But after talking to a friend about it and reading some of the responses, looks like I chose the worst of my options again. ( no surprise, it's usually what I do) Also, I wasn't try to brag either because I would have put this up as a general question had I lost the hand. I haven't run into this situation but a couple of times in the last 3 months where the action by V completely says bluff to me. Usually, I have a monster (easy call) or nothing (easy fold) This time, I realize I was not real strong, but I was not totally weak either. thus, the question. (apparently posed poorly)

Since we're talking about the actual hand now, here was my thinking during it.
#1 V opens super wide on button (as I do) and I don't like 3 betting oop with a med pp I'll do it with 10 10 about 50% of the time. I know I'm giving up some value, but that is a part of my cash game that I'm still working on. (started about 4 months ago)
#2 My thinking post flop on a 10 7 5 rainbow board was to check raise. I was completely expecting V to c bet here. Now if he 3 bets me in this spot (which I expect from good players and better hands) then it's an easy fold.

wouldn't any V worth a sh-t value bet me to death here with a hand like JJ?

I could and would have laid this down with 2 overs or a K or Q on the flop.

I think I can count on 1 hand the number of times that a villain has pushed on me and I've called and been behind in the last 4 months. (either that or I have a terrible memory) I learned something about 3 months ago that has held true about 95% of the time with regards to a V's bet(s). So given V's position, a 10 high rainbow flop and a push over bet by V, I figured he was bluffing.

For what it's worth, I called (obviously) V turned over AQ and I held up.
He was definitely stronger than I originally thought, but my limited read was correct. Thanks for any additional comments.

IPlay said:

So you ARE asking how to play this hand? You make no sense and the call is obviously a horrible call only beating a bluff. This is how a villian would play a hand like JJ against a short stacker(weak player) and hope they call off with top pair. I really doubt many villians are shoving 52bb's in hopes of bluffing a 6.5bb pot.

With all that aside is calling 52bb's into a pot you got 2bb's invested in with middle pair ever a winning play? ESPECIALLY with no read on the villian? Your theory of calling if you are "playing" aka running good is a horrible way to make a decision and sounds more like a gambler than a poker player.

I am pretty curious about the hand/point of this thread though, it is a obviously standard fold. I am assuming you made the call and won the hand and this is possibly a subtle brag thread? Or you folded and for some strange reason feel like it was a bad fold?

If you folded, good job, if you called, bad job(rather you won the pot or not)

Click to expand...

Maybe I should have put this in the analysis thread instead, but we're here now so.....

I really wasn't asking how to play the hand because I believe there are multiple ways to play this. But after talking to a friend about it and reading some of the responses, looks like I chose the worst of my options again. ( no surprise, it's usually what I do) Also, I wasn't try to brag either because I would have put this up as a general question had I lost the hand. I haven't run into this situation but a couple of times in the last 3 months where the action by V completely says bluff to me. Usually, I have a monster (easy call) or nothing (easy fold) This time, I realize I was not real strong, but I was not totally weak either. thus, the question. (apparently posed poorly)

Since we're talking about the actual hand now, here was my thinking during it.
#1 V opens super wide on button (as I do) and I don't like 3 betting oop with a med pp I'll do it with 10 10 about 50% of the time. I know I'm giving up some value, but that is a part of my cash game that I'm still working on. (started about 4 months ago)
#2 My thinking post flop on a 10 7 5 rainbow board was to check raise. I was completely expecting V to c bet here. Now if he 3 bets me in this spot (which I expect from good players and better hands) then it's an easy fold.

wouldn't any V worth a sh-t value bet me to death here with a hand like JJ?

I could and would have laid this down with 2 overs or a K or Q on the flop.

I think I can count on 1 hand the number of times that a villain has pushed on me and I've called and been behind in the last 4 months. (either that or I have a terrible memory) I learned something about 3 months ago that has held true about 95% of the time with regards to a V's bet(s). So given V's position, a 10 high rainbow flop and a push over bet by V, I figured he was bluffing.

For what it's worth, I called (obviously) V turned over AQ and I held up.
He was definitely stronger than I originally thought, but my limited (as much as you can have one on Bovada) read was correct.


I had a BR of $360 when I bought into the table. As I said before, I know I'm not rolled for this and do not play this level often. But I am comfortable taking a shot once or twice a week. I have an initial investment of $75 dollars. I play .05/.10 and .02/.05 mostly with some trnys mixed in.

What I've learned from this hand. 3 betting here with 88 is a must. Calling post flop was at best a gamble. Am I missing anything?

Thanks for any additional comments.

I don't think setmining with 88 short is optimal. I think 3bet with intentions to jam is way to go. So I think when he makes it .75 that you should make it 2.25 and either Jam flop or C/F. on that board texture I think your safe to just open Jam. Idk just how I would have played it. you minimize the mistakes you make on future streets and make it harder for your opponent to play perfect poker against you

If you're buying in short then I just don't see what business do you have at those stakes.

As for your play I don't see a reason why you shouldn't 3-bet in this position, but you didn't and pot is relatively small, so why should you risk your whole stack? Most of the time I will fold the hand and look for a better spot to get my money in. Of course if I have some history with the player it will affect my decision making.

Long story short: I would fold most of the time and look for a better hand to have in these spots. You shouldn't risk your whole stack over a 6BB pot.

Feeling too lazy today to quote everything but OP states he has no reads on villain yet checks the flop with the intention of a check-raise and further says when villain turned over AQ he was surprised because it was a bigger hand than what OP put him on.

Okay.

You have no read on villain yet you're trying to put him on a hand with his 2BB raise preflop? This is why you 3bet pre... not to start building a pot but to gain information.

But I will lay out one thing I found humorous...

crow27 said:

I learned something about 3 months ago that has held true about 95% of the time with regards to a V's bet(s).

Click to expand...

Blanketing thousands of villains like this is just plain silly even if your percentages hold true (I don't care in the slightest if they are accurate or fictional)... but mostly I just find these tricks that people have found to be outstandingly funny, especially when they come from people who are highrolling at 25NL

I think I would almost never call this, especially in zone, where there is a lot of set mining and trapping. Occasionally people do this with complete air, but very rarely. Probably he has at least top pair. Unless I have a hand that stands a chance of winning more than 50% of the time for sure, it's not really worth calling. I would be really wary of opponent having TPTK or even two pair, because hands like T7s are in his range if he is even slightly loose. Given that it's a rainbow flop so no real risk of draws besides hands like 98, I think that if he flopped a set he most likely would have downplayed it to try and get you a little more committed before jamming.

Villian will sometimes show hands like 98 here, but too rarely to justify calling on that logic

I'd probably take him for holding something like AT or KTs and fold.