Should I barrel the turn more often?

#1 October 10th, 2019, 10:10 AM

I've been going thru some of my hands and I've found out that Im losing a tone of money by check folding the turn. Being the preflop raiser I usually cbet the flop and check turn and river if my hand doesnt improve. Im starting to think I should barrel the turn more often as Im obviously losing money by not doing so. Need thoughts on this.

#2 October 10th, 2019, 11:01 AM

If you C-bet the flop at a very high frequenzy but then only continue on the turn and river with strong made hands, that is for sure not good poker, and it is a common leak. You cant just bet always though, so part of becoming more balanced could also be to C-bet the flop a bit less often. To barrel the turn you should generally look to have at least some equity, but maybe you can reduce your standards a bit. Even just a gutshot or overcards is better than nothing.

#3 October 10th, 2019, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by fundiver199

If you C-bet the flop at a very high frequenzy but then only continue on the turn and river with strong made hands, that is for sure not good poker, and it is a common leak. You cant just bet always though, so part of becoming more balanced could also be to C-bet the flop a bit less often. To barrel the turn you should generally look to have at least some equity, but maybe you can reduce your standards a bit. Even just a gutshot or overcards is better than nothing.

So what Im getting is that we shouldnt cbet turn with air?

#4 October 10th, 2019, 1:55 PM

It is ok to c-bet with air but you have to realize that you may need to barrell turn, and river in order to win the pot especially since you won't likely be able to win at showdown.

I will not c-bet strong/ disguised hands to let my opponent catch up and/or bluff later streets.

I sometimes also check back or check call if my hand is not likely to get 3 streets of value.

#5 October 10th, 2019, 4:46 PM

Originally Posted by Killdalimper

So what Im getting is that we shouldnt cbet turn with air?

Not in general no. Its always better to bluff with hands, that have at least some equity. If you are likely to already be drawing dead, its usually ok to just give up.

#6 October 14th, 2019, 1:18 AM

fundiver's post was spot on IMO. He mentions balance and I wanted to make sure this point was fully understood. We aren't just decreasing flop c-bet frequency by checking back air. We also want to check back some strong hands that can continue on relatively dry boards. Most hands you wont be betting three streets anyway. So if you have some strong top pair check backs for example on dry boards you can still bet turn and river for two streets of value. You can also check back some air. This will allow us to lose less with the air hands that we give up with on river and still make about the same or more with our value hands that could be disguised by a flop check or get more value from hands that would have folded flop but picked up equity on the turn and now want to put money in the pot. Obviously this will also allow Vs to turn sets and other stronger hands so we will lose some of the time too but overall this makes our play much harder to exploit. Currently an attentive opponent could float super wide on tons of flops and steal turns with impunity when we check.

#7 July 27th, 2020, 4:40 PM

certainly, both by value andBluff

#8 July 28th, 2020, 2:41 PM

Originally Posted by Killdalimper

I've been going thru some of my hands and I've found out that Im losing a tone of money by check folding the turn. Being the preflop raiser I usually cbet the flop and check turn and river if my hand doesnt improve. Im starting to think I should barrel the turn more often as Im obviously losing money by not doing so. Need thoughts on this.

I think you do well to recognize this situation, it was the same and I understand you. What happens is that the C.Bet is done by almost 90%, so it is not credible as a value bet and they pay it to see the Turn. I prefer to make the C-bet at 33% in order to make the Turn bet higher at 3/4 of the Pot. It has worked for me. The changes are always good, you can't always play the same way.

#9 July 28th, 2020, 5:26 PM

If I raise preflop and depending on how many players follow determine if I want to do a continuation bet if I don't hit the flop I have no problem checking if another player bets out I can fold but if my hand hit then I've got a trap going and can go over the top or play to see the turn which is dangerous because the other player has a hand and going to the turn you're giving them a chance to improve their hand. So if you're first to bet do you bet out or ck to see what the other player will do? You have to bet out the turn and I don't mean limp you have to send a message you have them beat. More often then not they'll fold to you

#10 July 28th, 2020, 5:46 PM

I've noticed that people often call continuation bets so I often repeat them on turn because people see bet on turn as pretty strong. I even fired third bluff on river if I believed they were on a draw which missed and I was pretty successfull. It's a matter of style but you should consider mixing in these kinds of plays.

#11 July 30th, 2020, 8:07 PM

As it was mentioned, if you C-bet a lot and then just XF it is not good poker at all, of course you do need to evaluate every situation as a singular one, you should also consider the bet sizing so the bluff will be effective.

#12 July 31st, 2020, 2:29 AM

The main thing you should look at is how successful are your turn cbets? If they're super high then yeah start barreling wider. Also if your flop cbets are less successful maybe you should start checking as the pfr more often.

#13 August 3rd, 2020, 2:41 PM

it's difficult to judge without sampling of hands. I approximately c-bet IP 70% of the time, OOP 60%. On the turn, I divide these numbers in half, on the river again in half.

#14 August 19th, 2020, 12:39 AM

I think almost every hand has a reason to call the flop. Especially to a small c-bet. But then again very few hands have a reason to call the turn. So if you wanna bet your ace high the turn is the time to do it. When you check the turn after having bet the flop is like waving a white flag.

#15 August 19th, 2020, 1:24 AM

cash is very hard to play cause you lose your money but if you feel u have to 5 bet the turn to get othes to fold then go for it

#16 August 19th, 2020, 2:22 AM

Originally Posted by Killdalimper

I've been going thru some of my hands and I've found out that Im losing a tone of money by check folding the turn. Being the preflop raiser I usually cbet the flop and check turn and river if my hand doesnt improve. Im starting to think I should barrel the turn more often as Im obviously losing money by not doing so. Need thoughts on this.

A few things to consider when betting the turn, did my perceived hand range hit the turn, example would be an over card to the flop (A, K or Q), did I turn a draw of 8 outs of more (semi bluff) and do I have a hand already that I would like to build a pot with. That is the criteria I use to bet the turn. I think it keeps me balanced as there are bluffs, semi-bluffs and already made hands. If none of those apply, then I normally give up on the hand.

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Should I barrel the turn more often?

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