liv3player
Rock Star
Silver Level
Depends
I am more likely to fire 3 barrells out of position more than with position.I think if your betting outta position it represents being strong.I usually win more of these kinda moves from outta position than when I have it and try this play.
I am more likely to fire 3 barrells out of position more than with position.I think if your betting outta position it represents being strong.I usually win more of these kinda moves from outta position than when I have it and try this play.
Jagsti
I'm sweet enough!
Silver Level
Yeah, I think I'm more inclined to 3 barrel oop. Mainly for value sometimes for bluff b/c as Liv says, it represents a really strong line.
However as with everything, 3 barrelling is very much villain dependent and table dynamics also come into consideration.
However as with everything, 3 barrelling is very much villain dependent and table dynamics also come into consideration.
c9h13no3
Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
OOP obviously. The reason we do this (either as a bluff or for value) is because their range is wider when we bet. As soon as we check and let them do something, their range becomes smaller.
If they check back, their range is weaker but now we've either missed value or its harder to bluff them (because there's less streets of betting left). If they bet, then their range is more polarized and there's less of it that we beat. Thus when they bet, our bluff is less likely to succeed, and there's less middle strength hands we can get value from.
These days I'm rarely check/calling out of position unless I think I can induce a lot of bluffs or value bets from worse. And even value bets from worse are rare, since most players will call a bet with more hands than they will bet themselves.
If they check back, their range is weaker but now we've either missed value or its harder to bluff them (because there's less streets of betting left). If they bet, then their range is more polarized and there's less of it that we beat. Thus when they bet, our bluff is less likely to succeed, and there's less middle strength hands we can get value from.
These days I'm rarely check/calling out of position unless I think I can induce a lot of bluffs or value bets from worse. And even value bets from worse are rare, since most players will call a bet with more hands than they will bet themselves.
F Paulsson
euro love
Silver Level
janovsky: 3-barrelling means when you c-bet the flop, the turn and the river. Boom, boom, boom.
I think c9 makes good points, but I'm not sure I agree that it's obviously OOP. For those who are interested in compiling some results, run the following filter in HEM:
Find a large sample of hands.
Select position = button
In Other Filters, select "River Continuation Bet Possible", and refresh. Note the number of hands. Add, from Other Filters, "River Continuation Bet Made" and calculate the percentage.
Do the same with position = small blind.
EDIT: Actually, use the Position report (from the reports list) and you don't need to fiddle around with small blind/button.
Post findings here, please. Mine are both roughly 50% for 2009 (although sample size is a serious issue here).
I have a couple of things I'm interested in regarding this, not the least of what the hand distribution is like in vs. out of position. Is it more polarized OOP for thinking players? This is good to know when it comes to playing bluff-catching hands in vs. out of position, i.e. should we be more or less willing to call down with 99 vs. a regular in or out of position if we know he's aggressive? Intuitively, I say in position but it's possible I just think that because I always prefer to be in position in general.
I think c9 makes good points, but I'm not sure I agree that it's obviously OOP. For those who are interested in compiling some results, run the following filter in HEM:
Find a large sample of hands.
Select position = button
In Other Filters, select "River Continuation Bet Possible", and refresh. Note the number of hands. Add, from Other Filters, "River Continuation Bet Made" and calculate the percentage.
Do the same with position = small blind.
EDIT: Actually, use the Position report (from the reports list) and you don't need to fiddle around with small blind/button.
Post findings here, please. Mine are both roughly 50% for 2009 (although sample size is a serious issue here).
I have a couple of things I'm interested in regarding this, not the least of what the hand distribution is like in vs. out of position. Is it more polarized OOP for thinking players? This is good to know when it comes to playing bluff-catching hands in vs. out of position, i.e. should we be more or less willing to call down with 99 vs. a regular in or out of position if we know he's aggressive? Intuitively, I say in position but it's possible I just think that because I always prefer to be in position in general.
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Jagsti
I'm sweet enough!
Silver Level
Not sure if these are the figures you want.
100k hands sample this year of 6mx/fr (no HU)
River cb possible:
sb = 29
btn = 24
River cb possible + made:
sb = 18
btn = 18
Is that what you want m8?
F Paulsson
euro love
Silver Level
Yup, those look like the numbers I'm after. If you look at those 18 hands (well, 36) would you say that there's a wider spread of hand strengths in position in the SB or the button? I.e. which one is more polarized?
c9h13no3
Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
I'm also a low volume player so my sample size is tiny. I'll check mine tonight.I guess c9 triple barrels like a gazillion more often than all of us combined, so i'm looking forward to his stats...
Will post mine later tonight.
BelgoSuisse
Legend
Silver Level
BelgoSuisse
Legend
Silver Level
cbet on river means you cbet flop and turn too. Otherwise it's not called a cbet.
Jagsti
I'm sweet enough!
Silver Level
OKi Doki, just thought that it may be the fact you just bet turn then river!
Jagsti
I'm sweet enough!
Silver Level
Maniacz!
F Paulsson
euro love
Silver Level
Just a clarification about what these numbers show, btw: Like Chuck intuitively guessed, it's not the case that these numbers show that you triple barrel 70% of the times that you had initiative on the flop - only that you followed up a second barrel with a third 70% of the time. If you want to know how often you triple barrel when you had initiative on the flop, sort for "Flop Continuation Bet Possible" and compare it to "River Continuation Bet Made."
The numbers don't tell me as much as I had hoped for, mostly because of sample size issues. I was hoping to get a good idea of how profitable certain calldowns are, but I guess triple barrels aren't common enough to really device a standard strategy around.
Well, at least I learned that. Thanks, guys.
The numbers don't tell me as much as I had hoped for, mostly because of sample size issues. I was hoping to get a good idea of how profitable certain calldowns are, but I guess triple barrels aren't common enough to really device a standard strategy around.
Well, at least I learned that. Thanks, guys.
dsvw56
I'm a Taurus
Silver Level
I think there's way to many factors going in to this to be able to come up with any "standard" strategy to work from. So much of it relies on recent history and current table dynamic that I don't think you're ever going to be able to derive much meaningful insight from looking at other players stats, other than those you are playing against regularly.
BelgoSuisse
Legend
Silver Level
dsvw56
I'm a Taurus
Silver Level
It also looks like you're not double barreling enough either imo.