Getting very little value from AA and KK

Playing 10NL 6max and I cant remember the last time I won a big pot or an all in with AA or KK. Pre flop, everyone folds to 4 bets, and I mean everyone, the only time you're called or 5 bet is by Aces, no exaggeration.

Calling/raising the 5bet with KK you might as well just give away your stack, its aces every single time. Which makes me think I need to slow play them.

From memory the last 4 times ive slow played AA or KK ive lost. I cant see this being the best way to play them, because players are happy chasing anything.

4bet shoving is an idea, the times ive done it though it doesnt get calls very often. Ive had to have a pretty loose image to get called by QQ and AKs.

Maybe I should start 4betting with air lol.

How do you play aces and kings? I cant believe im even asking this question! If anyone else is playing 10NL are you experiencing the same? 5NL people called with AK etc all the time. 10 everyone seems to be right nits when it comes to anything after the 3bet. I guess I am too, but that could be about to change!

Do you have fold to 4 bet after 3 bet stat on your HUD? With a large sample of hands its a very crucial stat.

I 4 bet shove AA those who have a tight 3 bet range. However when you are facing a 3 bet from a loose player then you may just call if you are in position. Never slow play OOP because it will be very difficult to get away if your opponent out flops you.

I have a tight 3 bet range but I am a loose player in terms of the hands I play. I feel like I get decent action with my premiums but of course there are many times when everyone folds. I used to get disappointed by that but I am totally used to it now and don't think about it much. I will play my premiums aggressively if you want to give me action good but if not I am still good.

As for facing a 5 bet with KK well I dunno that's a very difficult situation and I have never gotten away with it.

KK is really just good for paying aces off.

People don't seem to overvalue QQ-10s enough anymore.

Everyone folds to 4bets and this is bad? It sounds like a money factory to me.

Thinker_145 said:

Do you have fold to 4 bet after 3 bet stat on your HUD? With a large sample of hands its a very crucial stat.

I 4 bet shove AA those who have a tight 3 bet range. However when you are facing a 3 bet from a loose player then you may just call if you are in position. Never slow play OOP because it will be very difficult to get away if your opponent out flops you.

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Yeah got those stats. Most have tight 3 bet and huge fold to 4 bet values. People are folding QQ and AKs pre against loose players like it's second nature. It's a shock when I see them all in pre, I even make a note.

LAGs are actually easiest to play against, by trapping after the 3bet. I think I'm just gonna have to play the same against tags.

Would you not recommend 4 betting AK and other borderline hands, just to get folds? We're never calling 5 bets and I can see it being pretty risky.

LD1977 said:

Everyone folds to 4bets and this is bad? It sounds like a money factory to me.

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I've been thinking of light 4 betting now. Doesn't seem necessary at 10nl though?

akaRobbo said:

Pre flop, everyone folds to 4 bets, and I mean everyone, the only time you're called or 5 bet is by Aces, no exaggeration. !

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akaRobbo said:

Maybe I should start 4betting with air lol

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well yeah

akaRobbo said:

Yeah got those stats. Most have tight 3 bet and huge fold to 4 bet values. People are folding QQ and AKs pre against loose players like it's second nature. It's a shock when I see them all in pre, I even make a note.

LAGs are actually easiest to play against, by trapping after the 3bet. I think I'm just gonna have to play the same against tags.

Would you not recommend 4 betting AK and other borderline hands, just to get folds? We're never calling 5 bets and I can see it being pretty risky.

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Really how do you know people are folding QQ and AKs pre?

When you 4 bet with AK the only total disaster that can happen is if you are against AA. In that case its just an unfortunate situation. Against KK you still have reasonable equity.

I almost always 4 bet with AK and I think only once have I ever folded it pre.

Thinker_145 said:

Really how do you know people are folding QQ and AKs pre?

When you 4 bet with AK the only total disaster that can happen is if you are against AA. In that case its just an unfortunate situation. Against KK you still have reasonable equity.

I almost always 4 bet with AK and I think only once have I ever folded it pre.

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Because once a 4bet comes in, action shuts down nearly all the time, and if it doesn't it's AA v KK.

I guess a huge leak of mine is not 4 betting AK and QQ?

Maybe I'm just playing at the wrong tables but I get into leveling wars where me and villains are definitely 4 betting wider than aces. This is 10nl 6 Max on poker stars we're talking here.

akaRobbo said:

I guess a huge leak of mine is not 4 betting AK and QQ?

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Actually I've recently started thinking that QQ plays better when you flat vs a 3 bet to be honest. Obviously if you have a specific dynamic going this wouldn't necessarily be the case.

loafes said:

Maybe I'm just playing at the wrong tables but I get into leveling wars where me and villains are definitely 4 betting wider than aces. This is 10nl 6 Max on poker stars we're talking here.

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Yeah 6 max stars. I guess I've not been 4 betting with AK and QQ enough. One reason though is cos their 3 bet is like 5% max most of the time.

loafes said:

Actually I've recently started thinking that QQ plays better when you flat vs a 3 bet to be honest. Obviously if you have a specific dynamic going this wouldn't necessarily be the case.

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It's a tough one. If a K or A flops were pretty much done. We obviously trap JJ and AQ and should get paid a good amount when this happens. 4betting cab force folds. 3 bet ranges are usually containing A and K, so flatting QQ can make things easier.

Ev+ is better than Ev-.What i mean is a litle value is better than no value at all.Its better to raise 4bet than just limping with the pocket Aces and get caught by a three of a kind or something like that..Anyways too much donking is not a very safe plays.

akaRobbo said:

It's a tough one. If a K or A flops were pretty much done. We obviously trap JJ and AQ and should get paid a good amount when this happens. 4betting cab force folds. 3 bet ranges are usually containing A and K, so flatting QQ can make things easier.

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You won't run into as many AQ, and you'll only get paid a decent amount if the last Q happens to fall.

Yes we trap JJ, but there's the issue where and A or K will make us fold the better hand too easily. hmmmm


then again I suck at 3bet pots. Let's hear more

the big pots are for the big cards, how the master carreño say, but in a occasion the big cards nedd a big player for win a bigs pots