Full Tilt to ban Datamining Sites

bodog announced recently that they were planning to block datamining sites and now Full Tilt may do the same:

http://www.onlinepokernews.org/poker-news/future-of-online-poker-tracking-in-jeopardy/2535

As of late, it seems that full tilt poker may be moving to prohibit datamining sites from collecting information from Full Tilt players. After complaints were filed last year against PokerTableRatings and their coverage of Full Tilt games. Sites like PTR, known as dataming websites, track real money cash game data at online poker sites. Some data is free to those who subscribe, but some is not free and must be paid for, such as hand histories.
In a post on the 2+2 poker forum, a Full Tilt rep suggested that the online poker room had taken measures to prevent PTR from collecting data from their site, which explains why there has been little reports released by PTR regarding Full Tilt players and games. There has not, however, been any official statement made by Full Tilt regarding this issue. Nor has PTR released a statement, though they have acknowledged that this is a problem, especially for their paying users.
The problem with the datamining lies with those players who do not subscribe to a tracking site and who do not rely on these types of advantages. They say it is unfair to the everyday player that online poker sites ultimately markets to. The available data is very valuable to those players who do use it, especially at the mid to high stakes levels where the same players ¬¬¬return again and again. It is also useful in poker coaching and staking.
Since little is known about the extent to which Full Tilt Poker and other big online poker sites like pokerstars will go to prevent datminers from collecting information off of their sites, it is hard to say whether or not it may soon be something of the past. While the online poker industry is still young, but continues to grow and advance in light years, it must adapt and amend itself along the way to compensate for fairness and the overall security of its players. This may be a big step for the industry as a whole that site after site will follow, or it may prove to be just a passing issue. However, the latter is unlikely, as once a big force like Full Tilt takes something on, it doesn’t usually get swept under the rug.


Thoughts?

I don't think it's a bad idea and poker stars are doing the same thing in the near future.

An argument can be made that sites shouldn't allow online players to compile data on opponents that they wouldn't have available to them in a real card house or in-person tournament. (Not saying I necessarily agree with that argument; only that an argument can be made.)

But you can bet there's some hardcore players who make big deposits to these online sites that would take their business elsewhere to somebody who continues to allow the practice.

In my view, those who don't know about it aren't going to be putting big money into the poker sites, they will be casual lower stakes players, not mid to high stakes regs.

I don't use PTR much, I will occasionally look a player up on sharkscope. My issue would be that if HUDS were outlawed, I would struggle to multi table on cash games like I do, it just wouldn't be possible to do it profitably, IMO.

Its about time.

PTR is the only site they actually name, I'm assuming sites like Sharkscope would be included as well.

I wonder about a reporting site like HighStakesDB though, would they still be allowed to operate? It's not so much a practial resource as it is a billboard reading "Full Tilt = high stakes action" so I'm wondering if they'd let that one slide?

Ninja edit: maybe not, they're reporting problems with their tracking on Full Tilt games as well.

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c9h13no3 said:

Its about time.

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+1

I'm not sure how this changes anything. PTR was essentially hacking to get data before right? So won't they just work to carry on doing that?

OzExorcist said:

PTR is the only site they actually name, I'm assuming sites like Sharkscope would be included as well.

I wonder about a reporting site like HighStakesDB though, would they still be allowed to operate? It's not so much a practial resource as it is a billboard reading "Full Tilt = high stakes action" so I'm wondering if they'd let that one slide?

Ninja edit: maybe not, they're reporting problems with their tracking on Full Tilt games as well.

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I think full tilt is trying to stop all sites, including sharkscope. I know topshark is having trouble getting SNG/MTT results onto their site and i emailed them about it and they said Full Tilt has blocked them since they are considered a datamining site. The email also said they don't consider themselves a datamining site, so they are trying to get it cleared up with Full Tilt, so they can still post results.

About damn time, these computer programs and their stats are cheating plain and simple. If these poker rooms plan on expanding they need new entry level players. If they continously are getting cheated out of their money by people with tracking systems they won't reload as ofter, or perhaps ever again. It's amazing how many people are willing to sign off on cheating as ok, because it makes them money.

onemorechance said:

I'm not sure how this changes anything. PTR was essentially hacking to get data before right? So won't they just work to carry on doing that?

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Well they're trying but FTP has essentially made their efforts useless. PTR tracks maybe 10% of hands at 100nl these days. Oh yeah and +1 for it's about time.

I think it seems like a great time to go post questions in the software forum for our local PTR rep. I'm sure he'll be very forthcoming with details.

Aaah well that's excellent then

I like the fact that they will be banning the data mining. If you collect info on players thru your software i.e. PT3, HEM thats cool by me but purchasing HH on players thru 3rd party info just doesnt seem right to me...

I think this is a good idea because it is an unfair advantage to have information like that out in the public that only a few people can use. I've always thought informaiton like that shouldn't be public anyways.

WVHillbilly said:

PTR tracks maybe 10% of hands at 100nl these days.

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i had no idea about this


i thought my ptr page was just not reloading properly or something


this is pretty awesome

its about time. figured sooner than later they would...sooner

Pokertableratings & Propokerlabs have me underrated & it's pissing me off!

Yep, consider me on the "about time" bandwagon.

RE: SharkScope (not their HUD which does work on datamining, but their SnG/MTT results), OPR, and the like. Those are scraping tournament result lobbies, not HHs, and I'm okay with that. It's the same results any of us could compile by looking up the tourney's ourselves, unlike HHs that you weren't dealt in.

pcgnome said:

Pokertableratings & Propokerlabs have me underrated & it's pissing me off!

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LOL, why??? You should be thanking them.

I follow thier results, and it's always incomplete.

pcgnome said:

I follow thier results, and it's always incomplete.

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But... you do realize how that benefits you, right?

About time, maybe when the playing field is level, more people will move to cash games.

pcgnome said:

I follow thier results, and it's always incomplete.

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Incomplete information is as much use as a one legged man in an arse kickin contest. ( apologies to any one legged members).

dmorris68 said:

But... you do realize how that benefits you, right?

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Sure, but it doesn't satisfy my ego. I'm deep in another tourney, & I need to rally... I'm down 50$ for the day.

I always wonder how much cheating is out there on FT and PS. Ever consider they dont want you to get that information for THEIR protection??