aliengenius
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
pokerstars GAME #12475512662: TOURNAMENT #58458655, $10+$1 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL III (25/50) - 2007/10/06 - 17:41:04 (ET)
Table '58458655 2' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: L.Schumner (1225 in chips)
Seat 2: vanquish331 (1180 in chips)
Seat 3: pN.Boogie (1975 in chips)
Seat 4: goforlowonly (2162 in chips)
Seat 6: beardyian (815 in chips)
Seat 8: rob5775 (1178 in chips)
Seat 9: Pigpen02 (1965 in chips)
rob5775: posts small blind 25
Pigpen02: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to L.Schumner 10♦ K♣
vanquish331 said, "just once"
L.Schumner: calls 50
vanquish331: raises 100 to 150
pN.Boogie: folds
goforlowonly: folds
beardyian: folds
rob5775: folds
Pigpen02: folds
L.Schumner: calls 100
*** FLOP *** 5♥ Q♥ A♣
L.Schumner: checks
L.Schumner said, "lets play a flop"
vanquish331: bets 225
L.Schumner: calls 225
*** TURN *** 5♥ Q♥ A♣ 7♥
pN.Boogie said, "haha"
L.Schumner: bets 850 and is all-in
vanquish331 said, "god"
vanquish331 said, "WHY"
rob5775 said, "flop play over"
rob5775 said, "fold"
vanquish331 said, "i need to know how to play this"
vanquish331 said, "in the future"
pN.Boogie said, "he saw you're tight"
vanquish331 said, "im posting this in HA"
vanquish331 said, "after i lose"
vanquish331: calls 805 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [5h] [Qh] [Ac] [7h] 5♣
*** SHOW DOWN ***
L.Schumner: shows [10d] [Kc] (a pair of Fives)
vanquish331: shows [As] [Kd] (two pair, Aces and Fives)
L.Schumner said, "wow"
vanquish331 collected 2435 from pot
rob5775 said, "oh"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2435 | Rake 0
Board 5♥ Q♥ A♣ 7♥ 5♣
Seat 1: L.Schumner showed 10♦ K♣ and lost with a pair of Fives
Seat 2: vanquish331 showed A♠ K♦ and won (2435) with two pair, Aces and Fives
Seat 3: pN.Boogie folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: goforlowonly folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: beardyian (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: rob5775 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: Pigpen02 (big blind) folded before Flop
Please note that when attempting the "phantom outs" bluff in this situation (these stack sizes) it is important to be "out of position" and first to act after the turn card. My remaining chips were about the amount of the pot. Also, it's nice if you are not drawing totally dead (I have the gut shot here).
I really thought this was a perfect spot to make this move. I played the hand exactly like a flush would (open limp w suited cards, trying to see a cheap flop, check call out of position with the draw).
Vanquish: you're supposed to fold, that's how you play it ! To quote Sammy Farha, "Why draw if you are not going to get paid?" You punish the flush draw by taking away their implied odds-- if they calculate they will make sufficient money by hitting, then it's correct to call your 2/3-3/4-pot bet.
Just to be clear for all the kids at home: you are almost always incorrect to CALL OFF all your money in a tournament! Trust me, it's exceedingly rare not to be beat if your hand is something like top pair top kicker. Of course this doesn't apply when you are holding a monster or the nuts and some aggro-donk is betting into you, but if you never called off your stack again I don't think you would be making a very big error.
A few reasons why I think this failed:
1. earlier in the tournament V. folded a big hand to me preflop, possibly as big as QQ (as I told him in no uncertain terms that he was beat by ReReReraising). Opponents do not like that feeling, and will be more inclined to call you later. You can't repeatedly keep asking someone to make "big" laydowns. Note too that it isn't just me that he is unlikely to make a big fold to, but anyone. Be aware of who had made the big folds, and be careful with trying to bluff them later. This is different from figuring out who is weak-tight and can be run over. We are talking about folds that would seem to 'torture' the opponent, and were very painful to make.
2. observer comments. It's not shown here, but combu said "CALL" (yes all caps) from the rail, and then of course the "he saw you're tight" comment (nice work on using "you're" instead of "your," but stfu next time. also, V. had the highest vp$ip at the table at the time, so your comment isn't exactly correct either).
V. claims that these were not a factor, but I have to disagree. Even if it's only subconsciously, it has an effect. Consider that you are much more likely to fold if you are just out there by yourself, knowing you are going to look foolish by calling off all your money for your tournament life; big difference between that, and knowing that others around you would make the same decision-- it gives you that social cushion that allows for the action (call).
It's one player to a hand guys, please. This isn't just unethical, it's against the rules.
Anyway, I have been early out of the last two events, in very similar circumstances: big bluffs in almost perfect spots, that just barely failed. You can be certain I will look to avoid a similar fate in todays FT buy in.
GL everyone!
Table '58458655 2' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: L.Schumner (1225 in chips)
Seat 2: vanquish331 (1180 in chips)
Seat 3: pN.Boogie (1975 in chips)
Seat 4: goforlowonly (2162 in chips)
Seat 6: beardyian (815 in chips)
Seat 8: rob5775 (1178 in chips)
Seat 9: Pigpen02 (1965 in chips)
rob5775: posts small blind 25
Pigpen02: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to L.Schumner 10♦ K♣
vanquish331 said, "just once"
L.Schumner: calls 50
vanquish331: raises 100 to 150
pN.Boogie: folds
goforlowonly: folds
beardyian: folds
rob5775: folds
Pigpen02: folds
L.Schumner: calls 100
*** FLOP *** 5♥ Q♥ A♣
L.Schumner: checks
L.Schumner said, "lets play a flop"
vanquish331: bets 225
L.Schumner: calls 225
*** TURN *** 5♥ Q♥ A♣ 7♥
pN.Boogie said, "haha"
L.Schumner: bets 850 and is all-in
vanquish331 said, "god"
vanquish331 said, "WHY"
rob5775 said, "flop play over"
rob5775 said, "fold"
vanquish331 said, "i need to know how to play this"
vanquish331 said, "in the future"
pN.Boogie said, "he saw you're tight"
vanquish331 said, "im posting this in HA"
vanquish331 said, "after i lose"
vanquish331: calls 805 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [5h] [Qh] [Ac] [7h] 5♣
*** SHOW DOWN ***
L.Schumner: shows [10d] [Kc] (a pair of Fives)
vanquish331: shows [As] [Kd] (two pair, Aces and Fives)
L.Schumner said, "wow"
vanquish331 collected 2435 from pot
rob5775 said, "oh"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2435 | Rake 0
Board 5♥ Q♥ A♣ 7♥ 5♣
Seat 1: L.Schumner showed 10♦ K♣ and lost with a pair of Fives
Seat 2: vanquish331 showed A♠ K♦ and won (2435) with two pair, Aces and Fives
Seat 3: pN.Boogie folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: goforlowonly folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: beardyian (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: rob5775 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: Pigpen02 (big blind) folded before Flop
Please note that when attempting the "phantom outs" bluff in this situation (these stack sizes) it is important to be "out of position" and first to act after the turn card. My remaining chips were about the amount of the pot. Also, it's nice if you are not drawing totally dead (I have the gut shot here).
I really thought this was a perfect spot to make this move. I played the hand exactly like a flush would (open limp w suited cards, trying to see a cheap flop, check call out of position with the draw).
Vanquish: you're supposed to fold, that's how you play it ! To quote Sammy Farha, "Why draw if you are not going to get paid?" You punish the flush draw by taking away their implied odds-- if they calculate they will make sufficient money by hitting, then it's correct to call your 2/3-3/4-pot bet.
Just to be clear for all the kids at home: you are almost always incorrect to CALL OFF all your money in a tournament! Trust me, it's exceedingly rare not to be beat if your hand is something like top pair top kicker. Of course this doesn't apply when you are holding a monster or the nuts and some aggro-donk is betting into you, but if you never called off your stack again I don't think you would be making a very big error.
A few reasons why I think this failed:
1. earlier in the tournament V. folded a big hand to me preflop, possibly as big as QQ (as I told him in no uncertain terms that he was beat by ReReReraising). Opponents do not like that feeling, and will be more inclined to call you later. You can't repeatedly keep asking someone to make "big" laydowns. Note too that it isn't just me that he is unlikely to make a big fold to, but anyone. Be aware of who had made the big folds, and be careful with trying to bluff them later. This is different from figuring out who is weak-tight and can be run over. We are talking about folds that would seem to 'torture' the opponent, and were very painful to make.
2. observer comments. It's not shown here, but combu said "CALL" (yes all caps) from the rail, and then of course the "he saw you're tight" comment (nice work on using "you're" instead of "your," but stfu next time. also, V. had the highest vp$ip at the table at the time, so your comment isn't exactly correct either).
V. claims that these were not a factor, but I have to disagree. Even if it's only subconsciously, it has an effect. Consider that you are much more likely to fold if you are just out there by yourself, knowing you are going to look foolish by calling off all your money for your tournament life; big difference between that, and knowing that others around you would make the same decision-- it gives you that social cushion that allows for the action (call).
It's one player to a hand guys, please. This isn't just unethical, it's against the rules.
Anyway, I have been early out of the last two events, in very similar circumstances: big bluffs in almost perfect spots, that just barely failed. You can be certain I will look to avoid a similar fate in todays FT buy in.
GL everyone!