Is players playing together common?

hackmeplz

hackmeplz

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I dont see how this is cheating in any way... It in no way changes any other players chance of winning... Is it cheating for two players to buy stake in eachother in a tournament?????

If they're at the same table it absolutely is cheating. It's usually accepted in big mtts just because the odds they end up at the same table is so miniscule. But in small-field mtts it absolutely is cheating to swap large amounts. It's kind of a gray area to swap like 2% but what they were doing is pretty close to swapping 50% which is super unethical.
 
domeburglar

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If they're at the same table it absolutely is cheating. It's usually accepted in big mtts just because the odds they end up at the same table is so miniscule. But in small-field mtts it absolutely is cheating to swap large amounts. It's kind of a gray area to swap like 2% but what they were doing is pretty close to swapping 50% which is super unethical.

I dont see how this would be unethical in any way... If i was working with my friend or trying to cheat in any way... Why on earth would i knock him out on the bubble when 9 people get paid????? If i was cheating wouldn't i just fold my premium hand and have us both coast into the cash?

I dont see being generous and giving my friend money when he lost and i won as being unethical.. While the cards are on the table he might as well be a stranger.. when its over hes back to a friend and if i won and he lost ill share..
 
hackmeplz

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You're setting up a spot where it's +ev for both of you to softplay. Unless you actively take steps you know are costing you money you are cheating. Personally I don't trust most people to play poker trying to win but then in certain spots play in such a way that costs them money. Even if you don't take obvious spots to cheat what happens when there's a really close decision were you not swapping and you realize in your head that folding is +ev for you money-wise? I'd be willing to guess most people fold in that spot.
 
OpenTheCan

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Its funny. I played a .50/1.00 NLH a little bit ago on ACR and 4 people at my 9 person table were from the same city. I always look. 2 out of the 4 had very similar names and they seemed to take long when 2 or more were in the hand. I think collusion happens more on cash games rather than the tournaments. I know when I play with my friends whether its online or live we go at it and give each other $h&%. There's respect and friendliness in poker, there arent friends in poker when you are playing.:cool:
 
domeburglar

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You're setting up a spot where it's +ev for both of you to softplay. Unless you actively take steps you know are costing you money you are cheating. Personally I don't trust most people to play poker trying to win but then in certain spots play in such a way that costs them money. Even if you don't take obvious spots to cheat what happens when there's a really close decision were you not swapping and you realize in your head that folding is +ev for you money-wise? I'd be willing to guess most people fold in that spot.

Soooo you basically just described a the situation i was in in this tournament... I had a set but if i was working with my friend it would have been more profitable for me to fold my premium hand instead of call.. since we both couldve made the cash but instead i played my hand as i would any opponent and knocked him out..
 
hackmeplz

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Soooo you basically just described a the situation i was in in this tournament... I had a set but if i was working with my friend it would have been more profitable for me to fold my premium hand instead of call.. since we both couldve made the cash but instead i played my hand as i would any opponent and knocked him out..

What if it wasn't such a clear shove? What if instead of a set you had a weak TP hand that was close if you weren't splitting action?
 
domeburglar

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What if it wasn't such a clear shove? What if instead of a set you had a weak TP hand that was close if you weren't splitting action?

I don't split action no friend gets half of what i win and i don't get half of what he wins..we both played the tourney i won he lost so i gave him a lil money to make up his losses... and on the bubble if any opponent shoves over the top of my 3/4 pot bet with a weak TP ill fold everytime...
 
hackmeplz

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You responded to a post I made saying this:

If they're at the same table it absolutely is cheating. It's usually accepted in big mtts just because the odds they end up at the same table is so miniscule. But in small-field mtts it absolutely is cheating to swap large amounts. It's kind of a gray area to swap like 2% but what they were doing is pretty close to swapping 50% which is super unethical.

with this:

I dont see how this would be unethical in any way

What you're describing is probably fine maybe a gray area but probably pretty harmless. However in my initial quote I was talking about people swapping action (50%) and playing at the same table. That is 100% cheating no gray area about it.
 
domeburglar

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What you're describing is probably fine maybe a gray area but probably pretty harmless. However in my initial quote I was talking about people swapping action (50%) and playing at the same table. That is 100% cheating no gray area about it.

When i responded i think things got a little mixed up lol i was merely responding to my situation.. not the one you were talking about two people splitting action 50/50 and of course if they are gunna play a different way because of this and try to work together to get the most profit than yes it is 100% unethical....

i personally never have made an agreement before hand in a tournament so split wins or anything i play in small field tournament occasionally and sometimes friends play.. its inevitable we will end up at a same table.. but i am generous with my winnings with my friends if they lose..
 
hackmeplz

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ah ok my mistake thought you were arguing with what I said and just assumed your situation was the same because of that. We're all good :)
 
MediaBLITZ

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When i responded i think things got a little mixed up lol i was merely responding to my situation.. not the one you were talking about two people splitting action 50/50 and of course if they are gunna play a different way because of this and try to work together to get the most profit than yes it is 100% unethical....
i personally never have made an agreement before hand in a tournament so split wins or anything i play in small field tournament occasionally and sometimes friends play.. its inevitable we will end up at a same table.. but i am generous with my winnings with my friends if they lose..
No problem that I can see with the tourney story. Me and a few buddies usually have a piece of each other in tourneys we play (no more than 10%) so I get that - BUT
You also said "after the session is over we refund eachother any big pots we took off eachother".
This would indicate cash table action and I am not judging you but how do you think the rest of the players would respond to this? I am saying they are not going to be so understanding.
 
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This is how I see it changing the odds. You and a friend are both at the same table, early on in a tournament. You wake up with aces, raise, your friend reraises you, etc. You both end up all in, and you take the pot. You now have double chips, which early on in a tournament can enable you to be the chip bully and play more aggressively. Would your friend have gone all the way to showdown with his JJ if he didn't know that the worse he was going to lose was his time - after all, you're going to give him his buy-in back.

Let's say you bust him, take his chips, then pull out of your wallet some cash and hand it over to him in front of everyone. It's his buy-in back. How do you think the others at the table would feel? Especially if anyone else had gotten involved in the hand.

Having a prior agreement changes the odds because it changes what he can lose in that hand. Others at the table don't have that information. Even if it was just you and him in the hand, and nobody else folded out after the initial raise.

Now let's say you had JJ and your friend had AA, and you caught the river J and won the hand. Others in the hand wouldn't know that your play in this hand might not have been your standard line. Afterall, you have the opportunity to double up and really nothing to lose.

I wasn't implying soft play when I asked how this was not collusion. But soft play isn't the only form. It probably never occurred to you that anyone would find this situation unacceptable, but I'd be pretty upset if I found out that the person that just busted me had such a prior agreement with another player.
 
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MediaBLITZ

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Really that is the question - not your (or mine) sense of morality - but how do you think the other players would respond to this? Would you be comfortable announcing to the table, "Aww he's a buddy so I'm going to give him his buy-in back since I knocked him out. I do it all the time."

Tell them sometime that this is what you do and see what kind of reaction you get.

I know when I play and another player has 10% of me they do not have a problem with it because I have announced it more than once.
 
cat24550

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It is more difficult when you are playing with friends, but it would be an insult to them if I didn't do my best regardless .
 
joker131

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its crap,it happens. was playing $10 6player s&g at titan, came across 2 players that i know playing at same table, said hi no responce. next $10 same again, then i new they where playing the board , said hi again no responce. then made a joking comment in a forum,i was slated by the 2 players,who said mind what u say as u can get us banned from titan, u got usernames mixed up , i was then slated by there friends on the forum so much i had to leave the forum. never again will i comment, just leave them to it theyll get caught. by the way it was 2 ladys.no disrespect to ladys and they where from uk.
 
I

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its crap,it happens. was playing $10 6player s&g at titan, came across 2 players that i know playing at same table, said hi no responce. next $10 same again, then i new they where playing the board , said hi again no responce. then made a joking comment in a forum,i was slated by the 2 players,who said mind what u say as u can get us banned from titan, u got usernames mixed up , i was then slated by there friends on the forum so much i had to leave the forum. never again will i comment, just leave them to it theyll get caught. by the way it was 2 ladys.no disrespect to ladys and they where from uk.

Im sorry but if knew 2 people were doing that and watched it....... I would turn them in faster than i could blink and eye. You dont need to tell them you know but sending a message to the admin or at least telling people here for our protection would be the least that i would do.
 
domeburglar

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No problem that I can see with the tourney story. Me and a few buddies usually have a piece of each other in tourneys we play (no more than 10%) so I get that - BUT
You also said "after the session is over we refund eachother any big pots we took off eachother".
This would indicate cash table action and I am not judging you but how do you think the rest of the players would respond to this? I am saying they are not going to be so understanding.

Really that is the question - not your (or mine) sense of morality - but how do you think the other players would respond to this? Would you be comfortable announcing to the table, "Aww he's a buddy so I'm going to give him his buy-in back since I knocked him out. I do it all the time."

Tell them sometime that this is what you do and see what kind of reaction you get.

I know when I play and another player has 10% of me they do not have a problem with it because I have announced it more than once.

At a cash game the whole point of the "give the other person back what they lost off me" is supposed to be so its fair to every other player at the table.. I dont want to play my game in any other way than i would if the person sitting in (EX.) seat #3 wasnt my friend.. but at the same time im not trying to take my friends money... Im very confident in my poker skills over any of my friends... and i give them fair warning whether it be tournament or cash game play.. Im going to try to take your money just like i would any other opponent...

I have enough to think about in trying to take peoples money, the last thing i want on my mind is how to take peoples money but at the same time not cost my friends money lol...
 
MediaBLITZ

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I just wonder how this would go over with the rest of the table and the floor supervisors/poker room managers. Must be nice for your friends though to know they have zero risk getting in a hand with you.
 
domeburglar

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I just wonder how this would go over with the rest of the table and the floor supervisors/poker room managers. Must be nice for your friends though to know they have zero risk getting in a hand with you.

I guess ur right when you put it that way.... Idk i try to be as fair as possible and usually try to avoid having friends at my table because of this tricky situation..
 
Beanfacekilla

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There is no point to playing poker with nothing at stake. That is how you keep score.

I will tell any friend (I have before) that I will not take it easy on them.

There is no way I am giving someone their money back (friend or not). That's stupid. It is absolutely collusion IMO. It completely ruins the game for someone to know there is no consequences for losing their loot.

Like someone else said, go ahead and tell your table mates or the floor, see how they react. Iam quite certain it will not be OK.

If anyone wants to take it easy on their friends and give them their money back, don't involve other people in this BS. Play HU at home. Play a home game with all of your buds.

Just my $0.02 here. I did not read the entire thread, just several posts.
 
domeburglar

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There is no point to playing poker with nothing at stake. That is how you keep score.

I will tell any friend (I have before) that I will not take it easy on them.

There is no way I am giving someone their money back (friend or not). That's stupid. It is absolutely collusion IMO. It completely ruins the game for someone to know there is no consequences for losing their loot.

Like someone else said, go ahead and tell your table mates or the floor, see how they react. Iam quite certain it will not be OK.

If anyone wants to take it easy on their friends and give them their money back, don't involve other people in this BS. Play HU at home. Play a home game with all of your buds.

Just my $0.02 here. I did not read the entire thread, just several posts.

I understand the general feeling of people not liking this and probably wont do this in the future.. I felt like by playing any friend the same way i would any other player.. Not taking it easy on them that i would keep it fair.. I try to avoid playing at the same table with anyone i know just to avoid this...Im going to avoid this all together in the future tho
 
jolubman

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Sadly, yes it is. Some use Skype to talk while they are in the same game.
 
Beanfacekilla

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I understand the general feeling of people not liking this and probably wont do this in the future.. I felt like by playing any friend the same way i would any other player.. Not taking it easy on them that i would keep it fair.. I try to avoid playing at the same table with anyone i know just to avoid this...Im going to avoid this all together in the future tho

I wasn't picking on anyone at all. I did not actually read your earlier posts in this thread. I did however see some comments directed to you, so I assumed you may have contributed something that might have urked some people.

However, I like seeing you around the forum. You are alright by me.
 
domeburglar

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I wasn't picking on anyone at all. I did not actually read your earlier posts in this thread. I did however see some comments directed to you, so I assumed you may have contributed something that might have urked some people.

However, I like seeing you around the forum. You are alright by me.

Yea a post of mind is what started the main arguments I did not feel what i was doing was wrong at first.. but i come into every situation or conversation with an open mind.. and with the overwhelming response of people feeling what i was doing was wrong i dont want to get involved in a situation that might even be remotely questioned as unfair cuz thats just not what im about...
 
buzzmania

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it was a problem at tilt and something i had no idea about till i joined a forum and read an article about it..the 5/10 6 man no limit cash game i used to play on a regular basis. the same 3 peeps would be like 5 or more games and it was so obvious to watch when on called the othe 2 would always get out of hand.never did more than one be in the same hand if they were next to each other on sb and bb one always folded..i made it a point to keep notes hand histories etc.on the 3 screen names before i made accusation to tilt...needless to say i did and to my surprise about 4 months later i got email from tilt saying my account has been credited with a little over 65.00 and 500 fpps has also been added and sreen names mention have since been banned.. not that all are bad but they all 3 were from russia.. ps google translate sure works wonders too. sad to say collusion is out there and with money comes greed , what sucked is that this all happened about 2 or 3 weeks before blk friday. grrrrrrrrr ,lmao.
 
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