Donks and disrespect

[ph_il]

Let me make a point. "."

Point taken.

 

[DawgBones]

Great post. Never understood why people who play in micro limit, n/l ring games try and sound like such pros by calling down someone's play. I even read someone's chat with a friend who called Alan Cunningham a donk. He's only won how many wsop bracelets? Think the term is way overused. Good job Philthy!

 

[lucky10477]

I agree they could be just learning...maybe a donk like me. Maybe a bad read. Point being is everything described above is how we get paid. SO IN MY OWN WORDS>>>>>>>

"POWER TO THE DONKEYS"
quote provide by
lucky10477 king of the donks INC
not to used or copied without written consent

 

[bobboss171]

Donks and disrespect

First I would like to congratulate you for the excellent text that you wrote.
I fully agree with what you wrote and support you in your thinking.
The freerolls are made for many newcomers who are learning to
play the various types of poker: holdem, no limit holdem, Razz, Horse, 2 / 7 card draw, Omaha, stud between its variations and is labeled a newcomer to precipitate Donk.

 

[N.D.]

I just think it's hilarious how the term's thrown around so much in freerolls, at play money tables, and at the lowest stakes. When someone tosses "donk" or "fish" into the conversation it gives me the giggles. Where the heck else are they supposed to be?

Ooh and another favorite is when someone keeps min-raising and min-betting and then has nerve enough to call someone else a "fish", "river rat", or "donk". Hehe, someone told me "Keep chasing" on their way from the table once, and I just said "I will if they keep making it dirt cheap".

It's just a case of the big, ugly, old, pot calling the adorable little kettle - black.

 

[katharine]

Very nice thread Philthy,

You remind us that everyone (even us) can appear to other players to be a "donk" at times without neccesarily being one.

I also like that you are encouraging people to look at their play before berating other players for "sucking" out.

I've found that the angrier I get at losing a hand, the more I've misplayed it, even if I had better odds to win the hand.

Instead of placing any of the responsibility on myself (thereby reflecting and improving my play), it is easier to cling to and behind the fact that I was ahead with better cards until this @#*# donk friggin donked out on me.

I am sure I am not alone in doing this, and your post inspires me to see past the donk excuse and examine my play.

Great Thread! Thank you for writing it!

 

[cAPSLOCK]

2 comments on this.

1. I agree. It is overused. It is popular to call people donks because if you do you separate yourself from them.

2. Frequently the player screaming about "all the donks" is one of the worst sitting at the table.

cAPS

 

[jaxplayer]

I think when someone is calling names and the other responds someone will eventually be on tilt. I like to use this as an advantage. If they really get verbal....just sit back and enjoy the entertainment!

 

[dkee18]

Thanks for your post. I have been called donk in the past and probably will in the future. That doesn't bother me so much because I know that even if I am not a great player, I am a good player. What does bother me is the total disrespect. I sometimes have to wonder if these people are just small kids throwing a temper tantrum.

 

[Sardonix]

I just chuckle to myself about sometimes and if i dont want to read it i just hit mute chat. Sometimes name calling is a good thing not that i use it but it can really put people on tilt and i mean fast and bad. Call someone with a 7-2 offsuit and beat them in a hand if they call you a donk just write lol and 50% of people in freerolls go tilt and you have there whole stack. It does work. Use it to your advantage, this is a game about money not respect so get used to it and enjoy yourself while everyone else gets pissed off and flushes there chips away. lol

 

[N.D.]

I just chuckle to myself about sometimes and if i dont want to read it i just hit mute chat. Sometimes name calling is a good thing not that i use it but it can really put people on tilt and i mean fast and bad. Call someone with a 7-2 offsuit and beat them in a hand if they call you a donk just write lol and 50% of people in freerolls go tilt and you have there whole stack. It does work. Use it to your advantage, this is a game about money not respect so get used to it and enjoy yourself while everyone else gets pissed off and flushes there chips away. lol

I have to disagree. What makes you think respect isn't a factor? Since when are manners and respect unimportant? Also, if there's no such thing as respect, why are most of us working to cultivate a table image where the other players respect "us" or at least our game?

 

[Sardonix]

I have to disagree. What makes you think respect isn't a factor? Since when are manners and respect unimportant? Also, if there's no such thing as respect, why are most of us working to cultivate a table image where the other players respect "us" or at least our game?

I used to think like you do about table image and respect but you dont have to really worry about table image or respect unless your playing with good players or high stakes. Were talking about name callers and disrespectful people are we not? No matter how respectful you are it means no difference to these people and the way you play only matters to yourself not them. If you want respect or are worried about table image in a freeroll your being foolish in my opinion unless its the final 2-3 tables. I don't care about people respecting me personally at a online poker table, of course i want them to respect my game but respect me as an individual i could care less. real life is different because its to my face not through a computer and on a computer i can just hit mute chat. I was simply saying use their hot headed disrespectful junk against them by goating them into playing poorly.if you dont agree with my methods thats fine because to me its about chips not respecting me as an individual, i dont worry about table image because i play tight aggresive all the time so my image is the same and table image comes more into play in a live game not online.

 

[N.D.]

Neither Philthy's OP nor the entire thread refers solely to freerolls. I'm sorry but I'm reading it as being about respect in general, and remembering that once upon a time we were all absolute beginners. Even at microstakes you can garner some measure of the stuff. You have to give it to get it though. I'm not talking about admiration, that's something different.

Some people behave poorly regardless of stakes, or whether or not the game's live. They talk the same kind of trash seen in freerolls and microstakes.

You make some pretty sweeping generalizations and I'm just pointing out exceptions is all. I mean no harm - no disrespect.

 

[katharine]

Call someone with a 7-2 offsuit and beat them in a hand....

If you call raises with this hand even somewhat regularly, I wanna know where you play, lol! Even with the added benefit of maybe enticing a weak player to go on tilt, you rarely have the pot odds or the percentages in your favor preflop.

I'm sorry but I'm reading it as being about respect in general, and remembering that once upon a time we were all absolute beginners.

I'm got the same gist from the post.

 

[hewhoholdsaces]

I think people resort to name calling because, they get mad at themselves for having limped UTG or BB with AA or AK or KK and are mad that someone would play say a J9 suited against them, not taking into consideration the Blinds or looseness of the table, or the fact that it is a risk to limp with a Top grade starting hand.

 

[allintuit247]

I thought "donk" was a synonym was "winner"? It seems any player who wins a hand is a donk at one point. I think a lot of the players who do so much insulting really think they can throw off your game with it but what I don't understand is why they continue to do so 30 minutes after they are eliminated.

 

[dkee18]

I thought "donk" was a synonym was "winner"? It seems any player who wins a hand is a donk at one point. I think a lot of the players who do so much insulting really think they can throw off your game with it but what I don't understand is why they continue to do so 30 minutes after they are eliminated.

I like your answer. Now that I think about it, it really makes me feel good to see the one person at the table who is calling everyone else a donk get his comeuppance. lol

 

[jaxplayer]

Ok...this thread has put me in my place. I just finished a $ tourney...I had pair of J's and a player called with a k 4 off....doesn't a k come on the river? I was totally on Tilt....I guess...welcome to poker....

 

[uradonk406]

This is something that I've always wondered about.

Why does it seem like so many members/players are quick to label players as donks, resort to name-calling, and sometimes show utter disrespect at the tables? I know the term 'donk' in poker means a person who plays bad at the tables, but I think the term itself gets thrown around way too loosely. Too many people either generalize a group of players as 'donks'-"I hate freerolls because they're all full of donks!" or they are quick to label a player as a donk-"I can't believe that donk raised with J10s UTG and beat my AQ!" I actually find that this generalized labeling of players to be very disrespectful. I'm not saying that there aren't bad players out there, but I don't think its right to be so quick to judge someone. Lets take a look at freerolls because they're known for being full of 'donks'. Freerolls are not only perfect for those who want to build a bankroll, but they're perfect for those who are learning the game as well. If a player makes an obvious mistake at the table and you do not know them at all-are they a donk or they a new player trying to learn? You don't if they're new or not, but are quick to label them as a bad player. Is that really fair? Not everyone who plays bad is a bad player, so don't be so quick to judge.

It seems like a lot of people view poker as a 'who is right vs who is wrong' battle. If an opponent doen't play to their liking or how they would play, they usually label that opponent as a bad player. Instead of learning to adjust thier strategy so they can exploit their opponents obvious weaknesses, some players will continue to play the same way and then complain when their opponent is 'playing wrong' when in fact its them who is playing just as bad.

Take this for example: You are an aggressive player with AKs who raised preflop and was called by someone who you know is a calling-station. You bluff on all streets with pot-sized bets only to lose on the river by the opponent who called you down with 29o and paired their 2 on the flop.

What a donkey, right? Well, yes-I guess you could say he is one. His play is obviously bad, but what about yourself? Do you label yourself a donk just as quick as you label your opponent? Probably not, right? Its probably because you feel like you were playing correctly and making the so-called 'right moves' and your opponent wasn't. However, take a step back and look at what you really did. You tried to bluff a calling station-is that really the best strategy against these types of players? No, right? So, is your play not just as equally bad as your opponents?

"But I had AK and he had 29! I had the better hand and lost!" This is another thing that I feel needs to be discussed: being result oriented. Many players are too 'best hand' obssessed and they take losing to an inferior hand as a 'bad beat' way too often. What I think some players tend to forget is that poker is a game of decisions-making the right decisions will benefit you more in the long run than making the wrong ones. Losing with AA to much weaker hand will have little effect on your long term game if you've been making the correct desions up that point and afterwards. Its impossible for a single hand to win all of the time and thats something some players need to understand. However, I think some players are tunnel-visioned and sometimes do not think about the long term when facing a recent beat or bad play by an opponent. I'll admit, I sometimes lose focus of the long term goals and become result oriented. Sometimes I'll get upset and tilt for a bit and there is nothing wrong with it. Everyone does it, but the difference is the players who are able bounce back from it. Those who are able to take a beat or a string of beats but still focus on the long term will strive better than those who view poker as hand vs hand situations.

A funny thing about the bad beats is a majority of them are not even bad beats at all. They're just standard losses that are going to occur. Again, this goes back to being 'best hand' obsessed. AK vs 29 is going to lose 30% of the time even though AK is the much better hand. I suggest that some players plug a few random hands into an odds calculator and you'll see a lot 70/30-60/40 situations. I'm not saying that calling with hands like 29 or worse is a sound play or anything, but this is just an example of being result oriented.

Another thing is the next time you suffer a 'bad beat' and think about calling the opponent a donk or anything else, look over the hand again. And I dont mean look at the results, look at how everything played out. And ask yourself if you've made the correct decision on every street vs this particular opponent. Going back to my example of bad decisions vs a bad player = bad plays by both parties. And if there is anything you did wrong or could have done better, instead of being quick to call someone a donk, improve from it.

I take pride in knowing that I am able to show respect to my opponents, no matter what happens. And I find it very respectful when I see another player at table type 'NH' and 'GG' to an opponent who just beat them in a typical 'bad beat' situation. Not only does it show good sportsmanship, but a lot of character and who they are as a person. Its actually not hard to do and looks so much better than berating a player and calling them names.

There are too many excellent points to comment on here.....What ever happened to the golden rule???????

 

[Sardonix]

If you call raises with this hand even somewhat regularly, I wanna know where you play, lol! Even with the added benefit of maybe enticing a weak player to go on tilt, you rarely have the pot odds or the percentages in your favor preflop.


I didnt mean take the 7-2 to showdown i meant a all out stone cold bluff and showing it. jeez give me some credit please. I used 7-2 offsuit as an example. This is my last post on this blog because this jibber jabber about a part of the game that it is what it is, even pros talk crap sooooooo if you don't like it quit the game because its not going to change expecially with 15 year olds behind the computer playing poker getting mad and throwing a tantrum. Freedom of speach is every players god given right even if it is disrespectful. sorry have a good one guys and gals.:deal:

 

[bestoboth]

You speak the truth!

Whiners, who can't understand that poker IS a game of skill AND luck, should probably just quit playing altogether; because you will always have bad beats and suck outs and things just don't work as planned all the time. Heck, that's part of the thrill of the game, the not knowing!

I would rather play with donks than sore-loser, jerks any day!

 

[signman85]

donk apololgist

From what I have seen mostly people are getting mad because if they raise they think you should fold your 46 offsuit. If that is the case Doyle, Daniel, Gus, Phil, Sammy and blah blah blah are all donks. Yea it sucks when a "bad hand" beats your "great hand" but in my eyes they are all winning hands, till you see the flop!

 

[N.D.]

From what I have seen mostly people are getting mad because if they raise they think you should fold your 46 offsuit. If that is the case Doyle, Daniel, Gus, Phil, Sammy and blah blah blah are all donks. Yea it sucks when a "bad hand" beats your "great hand" but in my eyes they are all winning hands, till you see the flop!

I like how you think. Where do you play? Screen Name?

 

[babyreid]

this is definately something that used to bother me. maybe the person was bluffing or just trying to scare the other player, maybe they dont feel like playing so they are being loose. who freakin cares. why people call donks and fish and much much worse names is beyond me. they are just angry immature people who have nothing better to do. ignore chat unless you have a friend at the table is what i try to do.

 

[N.D.]

Interestingly, someone started calling me a "donk", "fish", and worse after I cracked their JJ with A-3 during the rebuy period of an R&A. It was pretty hilarious because just a few hands earlier they cracked my KK with A-10 and I didn't think anything of it, knowing how the tournaments work. Same thing happens to them, and they say "A-rag, I won't be seeing you later" followed by a ton of trash talk. It cracked me up because I could have gone on a similar rant about how my KK was superior to their A-10 but hadn't. I could have rattled off all the ways my hand was better, but common sense told me that doesn't matter during the rebuy period of an R&A.

A hand or two later I raised pre-flop with AA, and the name-caller in question called after calling the BB. The flop was the sort of hand where they would have had to call my raise with total crap or a baby pair to have any edge on me. After their rant I figured they couldn't have hit so I pushed all-in. They called with 7-6 os and only had a pair of 7's. Their hand didn't improve so I had tripled up through them.

I sat and watched, they were calling something like 75% of the blinds from all positions, only raised all-in regardless of stack size, and folded to preflop raises most of the time. Their tactic had them constantly rebuying, even once they had amassed a stack of over 10k chips. Then they were forced to rebuy and add-on.

So did they proceed to focus on their own game after this? Nope, they followed me around and continued to talk trash. So where did the biggest trash talking baby I ever came across finish? 101st place. I finished in the top 30 as expected post heater. I got curious during those long waits of the hand for hand parts of the tournament. I sharkscoped the both of us. They've lost more than I've won. They're more than $12 in the red and can't climb above $4.

I checked again out of curiosity earlier today and they're on super-tilt. I don't know if they're solely a crappy player or suffering from bad karma. Still, they provided some amusement.