***yo it's August and stuff and we're awesome cash game players***

[ScottishMatt]

You don't quite understand. Your calculation is correct for calculating F23Bet.

What you fail to take into consideration is our continuation range. Not every ****ing player is going to react to a 3Bet in the same manner. You have all the maths at your disposal Aleksei but your premise(s) are so fundamentally flawed.

Our F23Bet % is not dictated by our opening range. It is dictated by what we are willing to continue in the hand with.

 

[Aleksei]

You don't quite understand. Your calculation is correct for calculating F23Bet.

What you fail to take into consideration is our continuation range. Not every ****ing player is going to react to a 3Bet in the same manner. You have all the maths at your disposal Aleksei but your premise(s) are so fundamentally flawed.

Our F23Bet % is not dictated by our opening range. It is dictated by what we are willing to continue in the hand with.

Yeah I know. And if we're willing to continue with the same when we open tight as when we open wide then that just makes our F3B less. That's my point. Let me reiterate:

In my own experience the reason 18/14 players are exploitable, usually, is that they tend to be really bad ABC nits that will fold their blinds way too much and then fold flop every time they miss so you can steal a zillion of their pots and profit; but that's not a direct consequence of playing that tight -- it's just that people who play that tight are usually that scared/stupid. YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE TO BE.

 

[ScottishMatt]

Yeah but we aren't opening wider here. We are opening 18/14. We are playing that range. And you claim that regs won't 3Bet us to isolate the limper as often as they would a 22/20 for example. My point is that our VPIP is irrelevant in that equation to a reg who is looking to isolate the fish. They will 3Bet isolate us lighter if we play 18/14/93 (VPIP/PFR/F23Bet) and the other regs play 22/20/65 (VPIP/PFR/F23Bet).

I'm not sure about you Aleksei but I don't have a static continuation range to 3Bets. There are far more critical factors that our continuation range is dependent upon. I'll happily flat T8s in the CO vs a fish who min 3Bet my open from the BB. Whereas I'm folding if my UTG open gets 3Bet by a nit in the SB and I hold JTs. You understand then that our VPIP doesn't influence our continuation range one bit?

In the case with the fish I would be flatting every single hand I open, regardless of whether my RFI was 15 or 40.

 

[Marginal]

Do we usually allow poker chat in this thread?

 

[ScottishMatt]

No. I'm sorry.

Just permaban me for this blatant disregard of our cash thread's rules.

 

[TylerN]

Like, think about it: You open UTG and the board comes down 56T 2-tone. If your UTG range is AK, SBs, SCs, PPs and SAs (and doesn't for instance include AQ, AJ or KQ, so it's 12% rather than the usual 16%), then it's harder for you to have two random offsuited overs and thus much easier for you to have sets, 65, 87, AT+FD, etc. so your range is very strong in that spot. It becomes harder not to give you credibility when you bet.

How do we suddenly have 65, 87, AT+ in our range when you said to take out AQ?

 

[ScottishMatt]

How do we suddenly have 65, 87, AT+ in our range when you said to take out AQ?

Apparently a good TAGs UTG range is filled with a polarised range. Only the nuttiest hands and then a bunch of SCs and stuff. Or so according to Aleksei's post that he made in another thread.

 

[Marginal]

How do we suddenly have 65, 87, AT+ in our range when you said to take out AQ?

Magic.

 

[ScottishMatt]

Wow. You did it Marge. We have moved from poker to magic, almost as if by . . . magic . . .

Something to celebrate it with:

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Well, shit.

 

[ScottishMatt]

You callin' my video shit Scourrge?!

I'll settle the debate now though and I'll retract my previous points. You're better at this than me Aleksei and are no doubt correct.

 

[DunningKruger]

I might have to start revoking some cash thread membership cards.

 

[Cafeman]

That's the what. I wanna know the why, or I'll just assume you're parroting.

Cos 18/14 at 6max is like you're taking up a seat and not playing. It might work if you're surrounded by droolers at 5NL or whatever, but as soon as you start playing against opponents who are making an effort and reasonably decent you are gonna get slaughtered, end of.

Can you show me some evidence of this working? I have a large db and trust me, none of the nits win money at 50NL, quite the opposite in fact. Results oriented? Yep!

 

[acky100]

The why, is mainly just because you came out stating 18/14 was unexploitable stats for 6m, like it was solid well known fact. If you said, oh you can just play 18/14 at 5nl and noone will exploit you enough to stop you winning i'd of been like "yeah, makes sense, aleksei isn't making up new facts here" But just as you stated that unexploitable HU strat had the PFR opening 50% buttons, it was just pulled out of your arse

Anyways, im being nice.

If we wanna be serious though id guess its far from optimal or unexploitable, as it will contribute to more red line losses straight off the bat as opposed to somebody playing 24/20, and overcoming these extra red line losses is likely not possible in any tougher game.

All the evidence we need to say its a rubbish idea though, is that i don't think there are any winning regs playing them stats,there will be slightly losing or breakeven at best for the most part, im sure there are a few at maybe 50nl, but lets say at like midstakes, there will be noone who even breaks even playing 18/14 (maybe a SS'er but that's pretty irrelevant)

sorry for posting poker talk, wont happen again this month promise.

 

[acky100]

p.s. you should think about why a 12% range like you suggest, might be a really bad idea!

 

[Deco]

Missed the conversation but vaguely recall it from another thread.
18/14 is without a doubt nitty. I'm sure it's fine to do if your a uSNL winner though when your looking for more hands/hr rather than playing a few more mildly +EV spots.

 

[xdeucesx]

Guess what?

only 6 weeks till NFL starts!!!!!

 

[Blobweird123]

Guess what?

only 6 weeks till NFL starts!!!!!

Hell yes! Go GMEN! And btw, I need a bigger post count, so can I just come in and rattle off shit that makes no sense whatsoever?

 

[Ducky7]

Football started today (soccer for American fishes)

And we nabbed a cheeky 94th minute winner

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[WVHillbilly]

Football started today (soccer for American fishes)

And we nabbed a cheeky 94th minute winner

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

English only ITT please.

 

[Ducky7]

L2 English, you speaking to the most English guy ever

 

[TylerN]

U guys remember Flacco's cheeky td pass in the Super Bowl? Barely nabbed the victory

 

[Ducky7]

English ITT plz

 

[Aleksei]

How do we suddenly have 65, 87, AT+ in our range when you said to take out AQ?

Because I'm taking out AQo? The rest are suited spec hands.

 

[TylerN]

I like how you talk like I asked a retarded question