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acky100

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yup! except i get crushed on Stars :( I'm just gonna load a ton of tables and run like a 18/14 (yes at 6max)

Also planning on reading Applications of NLHE. Anyone read it?

I was planning on buying that book today, will tell you what its like soon if you havent already got it.

p.s. 18/14 most definitely is "exploitably tight" but if you're just wanting to grind like 5 or 10nl like a braindead chimp it'll beat the games, just realise it is a sizeable leak in any games higher/in general.
 
acky100

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btw i just need to recommend this book to you all. Has anybody read it?

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Unbroken-World-Survival-Resilience-Redemption/dp/1400064163"]Unbroken: A World War II Story of Survival, Resilience, and Redemption: Laura Hillenbrand: 9781400064168: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

If not, read it immediately and if you don't think its one of the best things you've read you're probably not a person!

Might be a familiar name to those in the US, but he's practically unheard of in ROW as far as i can gather!
 
pocketehs

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Pocketehs - confirmed nit and confirmed homo

im not a nit or a homo. if this is your way of me trying to get you to add you to fb you're going about it the wrong way lol Ill leave it pending for now

leave him alone eh

haydn i can't wait to suck out on you at the 25nl tables this week. I was gonna suggest some kind of challenge to see who came make it up to 50nl first but Ill get crushed and probe won't be able to get the same volume as you :(

I was planning on buying that book today, will tell you what its like soon if you havent already got it.

p.s. 18/14 most definitely is "exploitably tight" but if you're just wanting to grind like 5 or 10nl like a braindead chimp it'll beat the games, just realise it is a sizeable leak in any games higher/in general.


I already got the book and have a decent drive to 'merica today so Im going to start it. it was insanely expensive on the 2p2 store and the Professional poker site. like $40USD + $40 shipping to canada. Check out Amazon or something. or just buy the ecopy lol let me know when you start reading it!


for the record Ive never played a 18/14 hahah Ill check when I'm back but I'm usually like 22/19 or something which i think is fine? I know what you're saying though dude.
 
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ScottishMatt

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I was planning on buying that book today, will tell you what its like soon if you havent already got it.

p.s. 18/14 most definitely is "exploitably tight" but if you're just wanting to grind like 5 or 10nl like a braindead chimp it'll beat the games, just realise it is a sizeable leak in any games higher/in general.

Guess I should stop playing 2/1 when I hit 25NL then. How much looser should I go?
 
Matt Vaughan

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@hack: Sick!

@Matt: Go like 3/2 imo, but if you get start getting into the 4/3 or 5/3 realm you're really starting to push it and need to re-evaluate your ranges.
 
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I have Janda's book, but it was just to throw into the collection and not to actually read. Just don't have the time these days.
 
xdeucesx

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where you coming in the US today Jake?
 
xdeucesx

xdeucesx

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Michigan dude. Hitting Ithaca ny in a few weeks for rugby. You around there?

Ah I use to be when I was going to school up north. I was about a 3 hr drive from Ithaca :(

but the real question is, why the fook would you ever go to Michigan?
 
WVHillbilly

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btw i just need to recommend this book to you all. Has anybody read it?

Unbroken: A World War II Story of Survival, Resilience, and Redemption: Laura Hillenbrand: 9781400064168: Amazon.com: Books

If not, read it immediately and if you don't think its one of the best things you've read you're probably not a person!

Might be a familiar name to those in the US, but he's practically unheard of in ROW as far as i can gather!

Awesome read. Incredible story and he's was as unknown here as he is there. Highly recommended.
 
Matt Vaughan

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Off the top of my head:
- Your blinds will be stolen close to 100%
- Tighter opening range = easier to narrow for thinking opponents
 
Aleksei

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Off the top of my head:
- Your blinds will be stolen close to 100%
lol 18/14 isn't that far from 21/18, and blind defend vs steal ranges can still be reasonably wide.

- Tighter opening range = easier to narrow for thinking opponents
And? You can still bluff at boards that hit your range + the narrower your range is the more often you can hit a board strong enough to barrel for VALUE + standard 6max opening ranges still miss low boards frequently because most low hands 6max regs play are coordinated and thus a relatively small part of their range + because of that it's STILL possible to run 18/14 and have low hands in your range.

Like, generally speaking playing 18/14 (if you're structuring it well) means like, removing AJ+AQ from your LJ range, KQ from your HJ range, lower Ace-rags from your CO range (so you're playing like A4/A5/A8+ offsuit), etc. so you still have suited Broadways, suited Aces, all PPs, all SCs from every position and stuff.

Oh, and most of the time when you miss you still have 2 overs and other outs.

But thanks for providing a real answer. :)
 
Matt Vaughan

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Exploitable doesn't mean "ZOMG I'm gonna lose EVERY POT NOW" it just means that you're playing in a way that allows opponents to adjust to your play for a higher EV.

I think when people say "exploitable" they mean "more exploitable than this other generic strategy" though.
 
Aleksei

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Thing is though that playing tighter means, primarily, that your hands are gonna be higher-quality and hit something good (or even dominating) more often than everyone else's. In a sense it's exploitable, but it's just easier to exploit a tight image than be exploited through it generally speaking.

Like, think about it: You open UTG and the board comes down 56T 2-tone. If your UTG range is AK, SBs, SCs, PPs and SAs (and doesn't for instance include AQ, AJ or KQ, so it's 12% rather than the usual 16%), then it's harder for you to have two random offsuited overs and thus much easier for you to have sets, 65, 87, AT+FD, etc. so your range is very strong in that spot. It becomes harder not to give you credibility when you bet.

Or likewise, if your open range from the CO is tighter than usual (cut out some weaker Ace-rags, most offsuited connectors and suited one-gappers and weaker two-broadway hands or ragged face cards like K9o) it becomes much harder to resteal because in position you don't have to fold many hands you open to resteal.

In my own experience the reason 18/14 players are exploitable, usually, is that they tend to be really bad ABC nits that will fold their blinds way too much and then fold flop every time they miss so you can steal a zillion of their pots and profit; but that's not a direct consequence of playing that tight -- it's just that people who play that tight are usually that stupid. You don't really have to be.
 
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Your hands aren't going to be hitting something dominating though because anyone smart enough to exploit you is altering their ranges based on your stats.
 
Aleksei

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Your hands aren't going to be hitting something dominating though because anyone smart enough to exploit you is altering their ranges based on your stats.
Giving you additional fold equity, because then THEY have to tighten up.

Also you get to isolate fish more often because regs will not re-iso without a decent hand -- doing so is unprofitable vs tight opening ranges, you're just not folding often enough as you don't have to.
 
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A re-iso has absolutely zero to do with our VPIP/PFR. They will be basing it on our F23Bet.
 
Aleksei

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A re-iso has absolutely zero to do with our VPIP/PFR. They will be basing it on our F23Bet.
Exactly. And if we're RFIing tighter then our F3 is going to be lower. We have FAR less shite hands that can't continue vs 3bet.
 
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No. Our opening ranges in no way dictate our F23Bet.

By your logic if I play 18/14 and have a F23Bet of 75% then every other 18/14 must also have a F23Bet of 75%.

I hope you can see how ludicrous that sounds.
 
Aleksei

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No. Our opening ranges in no way dictate our F23Bet.
F3B = RFI - FL3B+4B

If FL3B+4B is the same but RFI is lower, then F3B will be lower.

Get it or do I have to draw a graph?
 
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