$$11 NL HE MTT: This spot not solved!!HELP!!!

[ratbat615]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

$11

Currency

$

pokerstars, $10.27 + $0.73 - Hold'em No Limit - 300/600 (60 ante) - 7 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

cappietony (UTG): 27,050 (45 bb)
ratbat615 (MP): 25,408 (42 bb)
kuss8585 (MP+1): 5,324 (9 bb)
TheGoldfish1 (CO): 4,640 (8 bb)
KevinGueAC21 (BU): 24,198 (40 bb)
v_skorpions333 (SB): 7,342 (12 bb)
paulking1717 (BB): 39,029 (65 bb)

Pre-Flop: (1,320) Hero (ratbat615) is MP with A♦ J♣
1 fold, ratbat615 (MP) raises to 1,200, kuss8585 (MP+1) 3-bets to 5,264 (all-in), TheGoldfish1 (CO) calls 4,580 (all-in), 2 players fold, paulking1717 (BB) calls 4,664, ratbat615 (MP) calls 4,064

Flop: (21,092) A♣ 3♣ 7♥ (4 players, 2 all-in)
paulking1717 (BB) bets 33,705 (all-in), ratbat615 (MP) calls 20,084 (all-in)

Turn: (61,260) Q♠ (4 players, 4 all-in)

River: (61,260) 9♥ (4 players, 4 all-in)

Total pot: 61,260

Showdown:
paulking1717 (BB) shows A♥ Q♥ (two pair, Aces and Queens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 50%, Flop: 46%, Turn: 70%, River: 100%)

ratbat615 (MP) shows A♦ J♣ (a pair of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 14%, Flop: 6%, Turn: 0%, River: 0%)

kuss8585 (MP+1) shows K♣ 7♣ (a pair of Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 23%, Flop: 47%, Turn: 23%, River: 0%)

TheGoldfish1 (CO) shows K♦ J♠ (high card, Ace)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 14%, Flop: 1%, Turn: 8%, River: 0%)

paulking1717 (BB) wins 61,260


Pre: with 40bbI picked up AJo in mp so I min raise and mp+1 moves all in for 8bb and the co calls all in for about 7bb the bb calls he’s the big stack with over 100 bbs, maybe 🤔 I should have folded here.
Because AJo is not so strong against 3 players. Especially when two of them are all in. I am looking at it now and I thank folding is the right move. Dam 🦫 always pre flop. Anyway I called.

FLOP: Aoc 3oc and 7 ❤️ The bb moves all in. In this moment I know that the villain has a A but want kind of A would the bb call a all in with and the hand 🤚 in the bbs range are AT AJ AQ and I was thinking that AK would re raise pre but the villain and I have some history together so he will be very cautious with me. So he may just call with AK pre . So the only hand I really beat is AT so even tho I had the Joc for the back doors flush. This is a fold . What do you guys think 🤔 or maybe I did the right thing because gto wizard did not have a solve.

 

[fundiver199]

If it was just one short stack jamming, then calling it off with AJo would be fine given the pot odds. But with so much action behind you, including a call from the deep stacked player in big blind, it should have been an easy fold.

 

[dallam]

There's two major mistakes I believe which made you eliminated in this party.

First is in considering with ranges. You were getting involved in a huge-value multiway pot so easily with AJo. Obviously 8 and 9 bbs are not so much according to your stack size, although you can only see really few cases when you beat both of these players.
But your real emergency call was when BB called these shoves. To beat 4 players with your combination is impossible, so it's a very simple fold.

Second is the stack sizes. You have here 42bbs. This number is so comfortable at any stage of an MTT. You are not in a rush for stack building, so it allows you to avoid these situations, picking up better spots.

I think calling the two small stacks only with mixing two of these perspectives - you need to put 7 more for a possible 19bbs - but their ranges is slightly dominating you. So for only the two small stack's shove in addtion from these early position... I'd still fold it honestly, and happily moving on with 40bbs.

 

[ratbat615]

Thank you 🙏 for your comment very helpful. I sometimes fold AQ in this spot. Don’t know why I was so aggressive.

 

[ratbat615]

There's two major mistakes I believe which made you eliminated in this party.

First is in considering with ranges. You were getting involved in a huge-value multiway pot so easily with AJo. Obviously 8 and 9 bbs are not so much according to your stack size, although you can only see really few cases when you beat both of these players.
But your real emergency call was when BB called these shoves. To beat 4 players with your combination is impossible, so it's a very simple fold.

Second is the stack sizes. You have here 42bbs. This number is so comfortable at any stage of an MTT. You are not in a rush for stack building, so it allows you to avoid these situations, picking up better spots.

I think calling the two small stacks only with mixing two of these perspectives - you need to put 7 more for a possible 19bbs - but their ranges is slightly dominating you. So for only the two small stack's shove in addtion from these early position... I'd still fold it honestly, and happily moving on with 40bbs.

I guess calling is negative ev pre flop-4 96 this was a bad call pre omg 😱.

 

[eetenor]

As others have stated AJ is not a call and the math is clear thanks Dallam---

You may want to dive a little more deeply into why you called preflop- There are some mental game tilt possibilities that may have caused the call
We would want to focus on those possible tilt drivers as they may pop up in other spots- becoming aware of the trying to win all hands tilt- hoping to win tilt --we could hit an ace and win--- and the its just x more to call tilt -preflop- you may find leaks in your mental game

 

[fundiver199]

I think calling the two small stacks only with mixing two of these perspectives - you need to put 7 more for a possible 19bbs - but their ranges is slightly dominating you. So for only the two small stack's shove in addtion from these early position... I'd still fold it honestly, and happily moving on with 40bbs.

I would be more happy calling off just MP+1 or CO rather than both of them. CO has no fold equity, so his range should be stronger. But even so I think, we could still call with AJo. CO had 8BB, and it was a hyper turbo, where blinds go up every 3 minutes, and there is a very large ante. So as demonstrated by his actual holding, CO should still be on a pretty wide range, since his alternative is to get completely blinded away. And even more importantly against just MP+1 and CO our risk would be limited to just 9BB, which would still leave us with a healthy stack, if we lose.

The real problem here is, when BB cold call a 9BB jam. This is not a PKO, so BB is not doing that without a real hand. And even more important is the fact, that the pot will be so large, that our entire stack is at risk against him, if we flop any piece of the board. Which is exactly, what happened. Obviously it was the worst possible flop for Hero, but there is no upside in playing this massive pot against BB with AJo. And as an added bonus we still get to see, what everyone had, even if we fold. So this would indeed have been a pristine spot to step aside and watch BB bust the two short stacks.

 

[fundiver199]

As an addition to the above I plugged AJo into Equilab and assigned MP+1 and CO ranges, which are wide enough to include K7s and KJo respectively, since we know for a fact, they were jamming at least that wide. And the result is, Hero had 32% with AJo, which is way more than the 24%, he needed due to pot odds. This is a chip EV calculation, but that is reasonable enough, when calling would only be for 7 out of Heros remaining 40BB. This is way to large an edge to miss out on, so unless Hero had a read (in this case incorrect), that one or both opponents were way tighter, than they actually were, then AJo would be a mandatory call even against the jam of both MP+1 and CO. And this is not particularly surpricing, since its rare, that we have a raise-fold range for less than 10BB in chip EV.

 

[dallam]

As an addition to the above I plugged AJo into Equilab and assigned MP+1 and CO ranges, which are wide enough to include K7s and KJo respectively, since we know for a fact, they were jamming at least that wide. And the result is, Hero had 32% with AJo, which is way more than the 24%, he needed due to pot odds. This is a chip EV calculation, but that is reasonable enough, when calling would only be for 7 out of Heros remaining 40BB. This is way to large an edge to miss out on, so unless Hero had a read (in this case incorrect), that one or both opponents were way tighter, than they actually were, then AJo would be a mandatory call even against the jam of both MP+1 and CO. And this is not particularly surpricing, since its rare, that we have a raise-fold range for less than 10BB in chip EV.

I did not see it was a hyper turbo. Which could expand small stack's ranges enough to even make a call only the two of them.
Nice deduction, and thank you for pointing out.

 

[ratbat615]

As others have stated AJ is not a call and the math is clear thanks Dallam---

You may want to dive a little more deeply into why you called preflop- There are some mental game tilt possibilities that may have caused the call
We would want to focus on those possible tilt drivers as they may pop up in other spots- becoming aware of the trying to win all hands tilt- hoping to win tilt --we could hit an ace and win--- and the its just x more to call tilt -preflop- you may find leaks in your mental game

So I need a Psychiatrist 👨‍⚕️ thank you 🙏 for your thoughts.

 

[ratbat615]

As an addition to the above I plugged AJo into Equilab and assigned MP+1 and CO ranges, which are wide enough to include K7s and KJo respectively, since we know for a fact, they were jamming at least that wide. And the result is, Hero had 32% with AJo, which is way more than the 24%, he needed due to pot odds. This is a chip EV calculation, but that is reasonable enough, when calling would only be for 7 out of Heros remaining 40BB. This is way to large an edge to miss out on, so unless Hero had a read (in this case incorrect), that one or both opponents were way tighter, than they actually were, then AJo would be a mandatory call even against the jam of both MP+1 and CO. And this is not particularly surpricing, since its rare, that we have a raise-fold range for less than 10BB in chip EV.

Thank you 🙏 you are in my head that’s my thoughts exactly. In the moment I felt priced in and the big stack could have suited Ax’s . AK AQ are the only two hands that I was afraid of. And the villain never re raised pre . So maybe a weaker Ax suited.

 

[fundiver199]

Thank you 🙏 you are in my head that’s my thoughts exactly. In the moment I felt priced in and the big stack could have suited Ax’s . AK AQ are the only two hands that I was afraid of. And the villain never re raised pre . So maybe a weaker Ax suited.

It was a calculation assuming, that MP+1 and CO had jammed, but the players behind them then folded. In that situation you would have had a clear call. But when BB has called, that changes the situation completely, and you have a very clear fold. BB is not supposed to call here any AX weaker than AJ. Those hands are a snap fold for him.