Integrity Check - How can an online poker room make you feel secure these days?

pentazepam

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By having the rules and rulings of the game be uniformly and consistently enforced by dealers, floor people, and management. To many places let each floor person make rulings based on their personal opinion with no continuity or agreement between them.
Hence when the shift changes so do the rules, one never knows from visit to visit what rules will apply for any given night.
Second point is to have no tolerance of bullying and misogyny. Period.
The question is about online sites:

"Integrity Check - How can an online poker room make you feel secure these days?​

There has been a lot of news around bots and cheating in online poker again. Does this make you question the integrity of the sites you that you choose to play? What can poker sites do to make you feel secure in playing there?"

I point it out so you can get your 10 chips, hobojim. Not trying to be a "bezzerwisser".
 
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makisaa

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The best way to reassurance trust and security poker sites is to see results in our bankrolls! The poker sites are not the same and they differ their behavior in the kinds of games. Maybe they use different systems and policies. The level of the bankroll is a factor that can measure the security of playing several games.
 
Andyreas

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No, I usually do not question the integrity of the sites I play at.

While those stories are not fun to read, I'm somewhat happy the cases where revealed at could be dealt with.

In general, I believe the bot (rings) and superusers are not that much of a huge thread as one might imagine. Of course I'm no expert, so I might also be wrong about it.

As others have already said, a poker site can make me feel secure when they are transparent with their security systems in place and especially also letting the players get as much insights as possible:
- allowance of HUDs
- visibility of players countries
- allowing tracking by sharkscope
- No hiding or player / game lobbies / tables

Unfortunately some sites are going in the opposite direction at the moment with restricting some of those things. :(
 
belizebum

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I dont question the integrity much, but more as what the heck could I do anyway. I'm still going to play online, there will always be bots and cheaters. I play low stake tournaments so I don't think it's really an issue. Maybe cash games and high stakes have more of problem. Sadly if it gets really bad, I fear the government will get involved, and nothing good can come from that.
 
Brigistul

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ATTENTION!I'd try to cancel the Bots! Before preflop there should be a special button, to type the ID of the hand and then receive the cards! that's how we destroy these bots!GL for programmers!at least for the last four figures.Who does not type will not receive cards or be excluded from the tournament!
YAY! So I'd be sure I don't have bots at the table!
 
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ADRI7HO

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Poker sites should do everything they can to combat bots.
It would be necessary to use them for proper protection in this matter, with correct analyzes and the most accurate observations possible.
These days, it is possible to write such professional programs for cheating that it is necessary for the rooms to keep up with this as well, provided that they intend to filter out the bots.
 
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as others have said , collusion is scarier to me than playing against bots . sharing of hole card info in online cash games and sngs is too easy and hard to detect . a well programed bot would be difficult to beat , but teams are almost impossible to overcome long term . i will stick to the freerolls and micro stakes !
 
antonis32123

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Many scandals about poker rooms and bots . Collusions , AI software and solvers that some players use and they get advantage towards others . Many ways to be cheated nowadays . I believe that the scandals are not even the top of the iceberg, not even the 10% or 1% of the actual scandals out there

Poker rooms can do way better against bots and colludors but they don't do . Very few things they do , against fish and recreational , or regs that have gone too far , leaving all the rest to keep on stealing other players' money .

Why they do this ??
Because that means more rake for the house ,
or because they let some scammers play that way cause in the end they will take their money banning them and keeping this money . Little of this money they return to some players some times . This is done for the eyes of the public , it's just for the show , to make us believe that they actually fight against bots or colludors . That they are fair and right . Bull**** .
Or they might also use their own poker room bots to steal players' money

Unfortunately online poker is unsafe , due to poker rooms' lack of interest to deal with scams once and for all . They have analytical tools , programmes , programmers , experienced pros from some poker forums who can help against such scammers , to identify the ones that are superusers or use illegal software for online poker. Players' feedback , about strange series of gameplay and results from some potential scammers , could be very usefull . We see that most scandals are revealed thanks to these forum members . So ...

They could improve the poker ecosystem a lot . But they lack the determination

They say excuses that they cannot control everything like online live AI assistance and solvers , but they do nothing or very little for things they can do . So they lie

I play online cause the stakes are small and I cannot play live . They need to change far too many things in order to trust them . And that will take time . But they don't seem to care .
 
lauestla

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Well the poker rooms should be transparent with their security process. Maybe they could ask the player to complete a kind of capcha to avoid bots to join the games.
But bots are not the only way of cheating : Collusion can exist as well and it's much more tricky to fight against that.
Generally I choose to trust the poker sites where I use to play. If I did not I would only play live tourneys... which can not be rigged.
 
Gritz18

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There has been a lot of news around bots and cheating in online poker again. Does this make you question the integrity of the sites you that you choose to play? What can poker sites do to make you feel secure in playing there?
Well, personally I'm not worried about that, after all everyone knows I'm a freeroler.

Now, if I were a professional player, especially online, who participates in these big tournaments, where the prizes are millionaires, I believe I would be a little worried, after all we are talking about large sums of money.

But on the other hand, I see that the big poker rooms have taken security measures to prevent this from happening, after all the site has to be credible, otherwise they will lose many customers and declare bankruptcy.
 
I Live Poker

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The first thing that comes to my mind is start demanding the use of cameras to record each player. However, the more I consider this idea, the more I see that it still does not guarantee security. Maybe the rooms could include those "I am not a robot" verifications from time to time, where we are forced to choose which pictures have some object or type some numbers in a strange image, I don't know. Again, it seems that could not avoid cheating entirely, but maybe could help to identify when people might be cheating.
I've thought about this, but when it comes to bots, they don't work because you would just let the bot run and be in front of a camera. Furthermore, this option already existed in 888 and it could be a disaster for uncontrolled and irresponsible people. :ROFLMAO:But I would agree to use it as Luve poker...

Personally I think, the recent discussion about bots on ACR is much ado about nothing. Its a continuation of a discussion, which began all the way back in 2019, and to me it seems more like a conspiracy theory than anything else. The recent superuser scandal on GG Poker is more worrying. Using illegal software can never make anyone play better than perfect GTO. So if you are a good player yourself, there is a limit to, how much can lose to such opponents.

However having information about other players hole cards or as in the GG scandal your own equity before showdown with action still to come, is a whole different ballgame. As we saw in the POTRIPPER and Mike Postle cases, people with such information can have a massive winrate. So this is a real problem. But because GG Poker had such a security leak, does not mean, other sites have it as well. And hopefully GG Poker fixed their problem now.

What makes me feel the most safe is transparancy. Sites that allow the use of HUDs, show a players location (country) and allow independant tracking sites like Sharkscope to do their job. This is the best protection against cheating, we can get as players. And of course playing on reputable sites with a good security team. For me PokerStars check all these boxes, so I would rate it as the safest site currently available.
It's not, the guys made videos with the bots running, because ACR created a reward of 100 K for anyone who ran it. However, bots are configured by humans, we don't see many advantages other than predictability, the only advantage is not getting tired. Transparency is really important, but are you sure that sites that never leak any problems really perform this perfection, or do they just not leak their bugs and fail?
Where there is money somebody will be trying to scam it. Human nature, stop one instance and another will pop up.
It's like drying ice, but you always need to be one step ahead with a new change ready to be implemented in the security systems.
Hello everyone. Due to the recent scandals, this is a relevant issue. I agree with the opinions that there have been, are, and will be scammers trying to deceive, both through software and bots. But, as one movie character said, the level of crime is influenced not by the presence of criminal elements, but by the ability of the authorities to fight them. I believe that if a poker room openly displays information about security services, anti-cheating programs (not disclosing all the information, of course), this already serves as a trigger. Also, the number of complaints about blocked accounts undergoing checks for suspicious financial transactions involving participants deemed suspicious by the room's security service also indicates that work is being done. The latest news I read is that PokerStars is ready to equip cameras for video surveillance of tables at major tournaments to prevent fraud and errors by both players and dealers. Of course, no one can provide a hundred percent guarantee, but in my view, PokerStars and 888 are currently leaders in security matters.
Perhaps virtual reality will be a new future way to bring safety to gaming. Who knows, it might even be possible to perform a retina reading to identify whether the player is actually playing, with those virtual reality glasses.
I honestly feel the poker sites are doing everything they can to make sure we are playing of safe sites. Do sometime bad things happen? Of course, but they are diligently working on catching these bad actors. I know several people and including myself who got random refunds from sites when that catch a player who is suspected of cheating.

As for bots, i do think people are going overboard on worrying about them. I'm not saying it imposable but again the sites are on the lookout for them. While I understand people and their concerns, I just don't see people setting up BOTS for the lower stakes. We have all see the posy and question on a possible BOTS but lets be honest, ate people with BOTS really looking to scam players on a $0.25 sit and go or tournament? I just dont think so but that is my opinion.




There have been a few sites that had the technology and option to do this. While I admit I would not want to be watched every moment of my game, if this is what was needed to make our game legal here, I would accept it. Just no more playing poker in my footie pajamas for me if this happened.

One option I could see working better is maybe a site does a random check every hour during the break. The site can skype random players and they would have to answer them using the video option and this way the site could verify who is playing and would actually show it's not a computer/ BOT. The question would be would people be happy with this option and more would the extra rake we would pay to cover the sites cost be OK with players.
I agree that they are working, I don't know if you followed the ACR challenge by giving 100K to anyone who could put a bot running there? Some guys appeared quickly, however the bots are configured by people and become very predictable depending on the complexity of the programming, people always overcome this, however it is not fair and there is also the fatigue factor which is something that does not happen with a bot, and, in more advanced stages of tournaments this can be a great advantage, with short stacks and simple actions to take without the pressure and mental fatigue that a human has.
I have to disagree about there not being bots in micro, in fact perhaps this is the biggest attraction, as it does not attract the attention of regulators and websites and also has a large audience that will not know how to identify or argue and complain about it, not to mention losing few amounts are less and are not taken as seriously. While boots can play a very large volume and make money regularly.
The 888 had a cam option for playing but it was simply a disaster due to uncontrolled and tilted players... but this would work well at high limits where they were played....
 
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Nothing can be completly secure ever...if the biggest company in the world and even huge bank could get hack i dont see how a poker site would ever be fully secure no matter what i can think of...Maybe a live dealer on camera dealing the cards would make me feel a bit better then a program dealing them .
 
I Live Poker

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There has been a lot of news around bots and cheating in online poker again. Does this make you question the integrity of the sites you that you choose to play? What can poker sites do to make you feel secure in playing there?

bot-working.png
I think they could even increase the rake rate to cover expenses for hiring new workers to watch the tables and identify possible bots.
It would also be more practical and hassle-free to generate a field in the chat tab that would eventually be activated, or, through the identification of moderators where different questions would be generated, on any subject, and mixed with personal questions from the players, and in between this mechanism would block any actions at the tables until they answered the questions in free written form, like in a chat, after answering the questions the tables would be released and the answers would go to a database where the moderators would evaluate later, in case of inconsistency in the answers, the account would be blocked for investigation, and possible banning.
With technology this could change, with virtual realities, perhaps there is some way to eventually read the retina to identify if it really is the player there...

It's difficult, and it's like drying ice. But everything in life is like that, there won't be a single place where we won't feel deceived, the right thing to do is that, not get corrupted and always keep fighting to keep things fair.

Not to mention now that Elon Musk is creating a chip implanted in the brain with the pretext of helping people with mobility problems, to interact with cell phones and computers. In fact this will become common, everyone will control computers with their mind and will be easily tracked, the problem of online cheating will be solved, and the end of humanity:ROFLMAO:
 
I Live Poker

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Nothing can be completly secure ever...if the biggest company in the world and even huge bank could get hack i dont see how a poker site would ever be fully secure no matter what i can think of...Maybe a live dealer on camera dealing the cards would make me feel a bit better then a program dealing them .
And there will still be cheaters:ROFLMAO:
 
KrazyKoo

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Honestly there isn't that much that can be done, in high stakes games I have feeling everyone is using some sort of assistance. I think what really destroys any trust is that even "reputable" pros tend to have 2 PCs in front of them.

Best solution is just to play lower limit games.
 
rsparente

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No, It doesn't make me question the poker sites, as they are working on fixing it, they might just add more "intelligence" on their data, with some few questions you can say someone is cheating, sharing accounts or is a bot, as per number of tables, winning rate, timing for play, etc.
 
A kiravio

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Being more of a hobby for me, I don't have large bankrolls, nor do I intend to invest amounts that would be a discomfort for me. This makes me feel safe.
But in terms of 100% safety, I don't think it can be ensured by any of the sites where hackers might have an interest. In my youth I was an avid PC gamer and hacks were always appearing to get a big advantage over other online players.
One evening I was watching my colleagues' league game on replay and I was left thinking...: I could see all the cards dealt at the table and I could study which hand each player plays and how in real time. If that were possible when I'm at the table too, I think I'd abandon the game.
 
Gutshot Gus

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Cameras to record the actual person playing? That seems like a big invasion of privacy that most people would not want to agree to.
I take privacy in my house as one of the last things that social media and government has no business being in.
 
Spielkind

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To trust is the only way...when not .....be a pirate
 
PsychoVas

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To be honest I only play in major sites that can detect such software. In fact I downloaded a video editing software a while ago, which included a routine called "miniconda". I payed no special attention to that until ACR rejected my login, accusing me of rubnning "python". I had heard of it used for poker, but it took some head scratching to connect it with "miniconda" i.e. mini anaconda, a program obviously similar. Only snake lovers would get that at once!
 
Goggelheimer

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The first thing that comes to my mind is start demanding the use of cameras to record each player. However, the more I consider this idea, the more I see that it still does not guarantee security. Maybe the rooms could include those "I am not a robot" verifications from time to time, where we are forced to choose which pictures have some object or type some numbers in a strange image, I don't know. Again, it seems that could not avoid cheating entirely, but maybe could help to identify when people might be cheating.
Absolute security can mostly not be achieved with normal non-extreme methods, even extreme methods are so costly that it is in no way affordable for the
online poker rooms as for the players.
Absolute security (for the poker room and other players) is a thing that can't be achieved without giving away other players right of privacy (camera observation of players activity).
Discussable if a person has these rights if he/she/it takes part in such games.

Today's methods are intrusive enough (giving away your passport data, what happens to those data if there is a security breach at the poker room's side).

Perhaps like I have seen it in Lex Veldhuis streams a heart rate monitor running besides, but that is also easy to be fakeable and also a heavy breach of privacy.
 
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First, develop a better system for identifying cheats, or even placing a bot playing outside the table, if your moves were the same as those of the one who is playing, with a great chance of being a bot, these are two ways to combat this problem, another would be to leave the camera on while playing, or recording the player's screen.
 
Gallarado777

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I only play on trusted sites, so I don't believe in bots that players come up with or talk about them. I think it's all a lie to denigrate poker sites sometimes players think if they lose means the bot is definitely playing against them and it's impossible to beat bots, I think players should just trust poker sites
 
ramdon p358

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It makes me feel safe when they reveal to the public the accounts of players that they have suspended, GGPoker always publishes the accounts that they suspend after investigations. This is what makes me feel safe
 
mariussica88

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This is a complicated question, I wanted to bring this topic up on my Blog for some time now, I noticed something very strange in the poker platforms that I play...pokerstars, 888Poker and also GGPoker. What I noticed in some tournaments ($22, $11, $5.50 and even lower ) that at some point in the tournaments there are some players that shove randomly...even though they played tight or relatively tight until then, I see them shoving 30bb to 90bb with random hands (6K, 2T, 73, completely "stupid " hands ) and the weird thing is that they usually hit the board strong...making flush, quads, full house with their hands.

Maybe this is just me, but I played poker for 14 years now and I never notice this thing happened this often like in the couple of months now. It's strange...it's like they know what hands are coming....maybe it's just me and I'm getting paranoiac o_O:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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